Executive Job Search Strategies, with Amy Sulgrove

TRANSCRIPT

Wassia Kamon: Welcome back to another episode of the Diary of a CFO podcast, the space where you will find real world insights to become a better leader and be better at life. I'm your host, Wassia Kamon, and today I'm so delighted to have with me a special guest, Amy Sulgrove. She is the founder of Talent Executives, a recruitment firm that prides itself in only finding top tier talent.

What's company clients, but also provides comprehensive career support for job seekers, including resume crafting, interview, success, coaching, and career consultation. Welcome to the show, Amy.

Amy Sulgrove: Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm happy to be here today. Thank you for having me.

Wassia Kamon: Of course. Of course. I love your content on LinkedIn.

And so I'm so glad we get to have this conversation today.

But before we get started, would you please tell us about your career journey to where you are now?

Amy Sulgrove: Sure. Absolutely. I actually was the national recruiting manager for a major financial services company in the U S. Moved into outside sales for a while, and honestly, I truly missed the hunt.

We've often been described as a sniper, and that's what I truly love. I feel like recruiting is a puzzle, and it's finding the very best fit, not just the person that's looking for a role. In 2018, I founded Talent Executives, and got back to what I truly love.

Wassia Kamon: That's amazing. And when I checked your website, there was something that caught my eyes was we don't just feel positions.

We solve hiring problems. You know how recruiters have a lot of bad rep, but you obviously don't. So mind sharing, what makes you guys different?

Amy Sulgrove: Absolutely. I'll sum it up with the word relationships and that is truly our core. So building a relationship, a partnership, treating people the way that we want to be treated.

It all boils down to communication and respect. That's really what we're based on.

Wassia Kamon: So, in a world where we feel like you're submitting a resume and it ends up in a dark hole somewhere, AI is probably screening it, maybe recruiters look at it, you're not sure, but all you know is that you're not getting the interviews, you're not getting the calls, what would you advise candidates in that situation?

Amy Sulgrove: So, as far as AI screening applications, you're definitely going to want to make sure that you use standard job titles. And what I mean about that is oftentimes a company will have a unique way to craft a job title or a unique title for you. Use a standard job title. Recruiters will be searching off standard job titles.

You also want to make sure that you have your qualifications. So let's say you're looking for a CFO role. My suggestion would be go out and look on LinkedIn at different CFO roles. Make sure that if there's qualifications. In those roles that you do not have listed on your resume or on your LinkedIn, but you actually have make sure to update that those are going to be key skills that recruiters will be searching for.

In addition to that, make sure that you're showing clear value by using metrics wherever appropriate or wherever available. What I mean by that is percentages, whole numbers. Those are things that recruiters. will actually scan and those items pop out. So numbers are huge. And in addition to just submitting your resume into quote, the black hole of resumes, I highly suggest that After you submit your resume, you search for the hiring manager or the recruiter, and there's tools that you can use to actually find their email addresses.

Email them directly, and when you email them, don't submit a cover letter that's three paragraphs long attached with your resume. People aren't going to read that these days. There's so many applicants and so many candidates. Keep it brief. Keep it simple. Send an email, maybe 3 or 4 lines introducing yourself and thanking them for the opportunity to present your email or your resume and present your resume to them in an email.

There's great websites out there as well as Google Chrome add ins that you can use to find the email addresses of the hiring managers. And of the recruiters.

Wassia Kamon: Great tips. Thank you so much. Now, what are some of those websites so we can make a list as we go?

Amy Sulgrove: Absolutely. Some of the websites that I love to use a signal hire is probably my favorite.

It's actually not a website. It's a Chrome plugin, but it allows you for free five credits per month of email searches. And even actually also finds phone numbers, but I probably would not. Be calling the individual. I would probably send them an email. A few of the others are hunter IO. Okay. Clear bit, connect, uplead and rocket reach.

I've got some others as well listed on our website under our premier resources. However, most of these that I just listed are free resources. They do allow up to about five credits per month each. So the way that I suggest doing it is. Don't waste them. Go through, signal hire, use your five credits, and then move on to the next one so that you have free credits throughout the month.

But the job seekers that we coach have been completely floored at even realizing that this is out there because they had no idea. They were constantly sending it, their resumes, to the black hole, and now they can actually follow up and use a process. So really just even walking them through a clear process of how to apply for jobs, not just, you know, slinging their resumes right and left and throwing them into the black hole, but actually being more intentional about who they're sending it to and what roles they're applying for has been game changing.

Wassia Kamon: Wow. I can only imagine. I, I didn't know about them. Thank you so much for sharing.

So what would you say are some of the LinkedIn profile or maybe online presence tips that people should be aware that they should also upgrade to be able to stand out? Maybe some things that we overlook, cause I'm assuming once you send that resume, the person will look you up somewhere besides your resume.

So what's the, what is that process?

Amy Sulgrove: Very good assumption. And you're absolutely correct. The first thing that I would actually do is really ensure that your LinkedIn profile sections are completely up to date. That will more than likely be the first place that recruiters and hiring managers look. So as far as your contact information, you're going to want to make sure on your LinkedIn profile that you put your email address as visible to the public.

And the reason being is that if you are not a first connection with the recruiter, The recruiter very well may not have access to your actual email address, and they only have a limited number of emails that they can send on a monthly basis. So I highly suggest that your email address is set to public, and that is not just when you apply for a position, but there's recruiters that are searching, you might not even know the role is open, however, you might be perfect for it.

And a recruiter may reach directly out to you, but be unable to, because they don't have your email address. So make sure that you set your email address to public. Also your headline, your headline is right below your name. Keep it simple and solve a problem. Let people know what you do. Don't make them have to read through your entire profile to understand what you do.

So explain the problem that you saw. In your about section, which is just below that only the first two to three lines are seen without clicking on it and expanding it. So make sure those first two to three lines are impactful. Make sure that they're not fluff, make sure that they actually have meaning and that it allows the recruiter or the hiring manager to want to click and expand it and read more about you.

Wassia Kamon: Nice. That

Amy Sulgrove: particular section really should be about you. Not necessarily about the company that you work for, but what is it that makes you different and unique? As far as location, be specific. Do not just say United States. Recruiters will be searching by location, put a major Metroplex, put something in there that if a recruiter is searching, they don't overlook you because they have no idea where you even are.

Wassia Kamon: Oh, wow.

Amy Sulgrove: Along with that, make sure that you are focusing on getting your LinkedIn connections built up to at least 500 people. Okay. This shows recruiters that you're truly a known quantity. And that you mean business and that you are experienced, that you're not brand new to networking and brand new to the job world above all, keep your LinkedIn profile updated.

And the reason I say this is that. Many people focus on updating their resume, but they don't necessarily update their LinkedIn. And what most people don't know is if you apply for a role through LinkedIn by submitting your resume, a recruiter will actually see your LinkedIn profile before they even see the resume.

So, What I mean by that is you submit your resume, your LinkedIn profile comes up, and we actually have to go in and click your resume in order to download it and open it. If your LinkedIn profile does not look impressive and does not show us what you do, we very well may not take the next step to download your resume and open it up.

So make sure that LinkedIn profile, especially if you're applying through LinkedIn, is up to date.

Wassia Kamon: Wow. Wow. That's so eye opening. Thank you so much, Amy, because I'm so grateful to have you here because we often only see things to our lenses and we don't see what you see on your side as a recruiter. So thank you so much for sharing these gems.

So my next question has to do with candidates who want to apply for senior leadership roles. So a lot of time you will see someone's career, they were like staff accountant, one, two, three, then senior, then one, two, three. And so how do you stand out to show that you are next level ready for recruiters?

Because sometimes you have to present candidate that may not have those titles before, but want one of those roles.

Amy Sulgrove: We do this all the time. Part of our company actually writes resumes and LinkedIn profiles. And so when we do that, we actually interview the candidate and get a really good understanding, not only of what they've done in the past, but what they're looking to do in the future and what that next level, what that next role is.

And we write the resume towards that. Keep in mind that although a resume is a listing and an understanding of what you've done in the past, a summary, it should also be written towards what you want to do. It should be a summary of what you've done in the past, but you should not stop there. It really should also be a focus on what you want to do in the future.

And so that first paragraph in your resume really should list. Give a very good summary of the transferable skills that you have leading you into the next role. I always say simple things that people overlook, especially if they're going into a higher level role, but really any role, make sure that your resume and your LinkedIn profile are in proper tense.

It drives me crazy. When I look at. Resume or LinkedIn profile, and they just added the new role to it, but they did not change the tense of the role prior. It's not past tense. It's still present tense, but it happened previously. And that those are simple things that you need to make sure that you are showing yourself as organized and paying attention to detail, because if you're not paying attention to the detail of how you present yourself.

You're definitely not going to be paying attention to the detail in a company.

Wassia Kamon: Wow.

Amy Sulgrove: Ensure your formatting is consistent throughout your entire profile and resume. Use numbers, use data, and use metrics. Those are gold.

Wassia Kamon: Okay. Make

Amy Sulgrove: sure that you have any recognition awards listed. Sometimes people think it might not be a big deal, but they are.

So make sure that you're listing the recognition. The awards even list team development and promotions. All of those will really add to the executive presence and showing the attention to detail, which is key.

Wassia Kamon: Nice. Now in terms of executive presence, I feel like it's a term that is often used, but we don't really know what it really means.

How does it show not just in the person resume, but also how they present themselves in an interview?

Amy Sulgrove: Absolutely. You would be surprised that I've actually interviewed people that have had a ball cap on. I've interviewed people that maybe have a sweatshirt on. It's really interesting. The way that you show up for your interview truly shows the way that you're going to show up in your work.

And I firmly believe that. So Not only the way that you show up to your interview, but the way that you follow up from your interview, a candidate that follows up before the end of the day in an email will absolutely be ranked higher than a candidate that does not. So especially if you're neck and neck with another candidate, make sure that you're following up at the end of an interview or after the interview.

Make sure that you put in a key point that was talked about in the interview. Do not just send a generic thank you letter. Make it personal. The other thing, and I know you touched on this earlier is a Google search, you know, before somebody is hired, they will most likely be vetted through social media these days.

And when that happens, you want to make sure that you're showing up properly in. Let's say Facebook, Instagram, absolutely. Your LinkedIn profile photo. I once had somebody apply to a position and they had a picture of themselves in a bathroom as their LinkedIn profile picture. Don't even put that on Facebook as a LinkedIn profile or as a Facebook profile picture, make sure that you are showing that you have professional presence.

throughout social media and I would absolutely watch what you're posting.

Wassia Kamon: Wow. Yes, let's dive into that one, what you posting.

So again, if we're thinking about candidates that either want to be next level ready or candidates who are already at those level, what kind of things should they be posting? What tone, like what's the right sauce, the right balance?

The

Amy Sulgrove: secret sauce. The secret sauce. I think we often tell our children that they need to surround themselves with the people that are positive influence. Mm-hmm . And that don't give them a negative connotation. So it's the same thing with adults, it's the same thing with work. You want to be surrounding yourself with a similar network, with the type of people that you want to work with.

Mm-hmm . If you want to. Potentially take a CFO role, start networking with people in the CFO alliance, you know, start attending events in your area, whether or not they are in person. And if you don't have in person events, do virtual events, but truly building that network and connections is key. You never know where that connection is going to lead.

And one person at an event can truly be life changing in terms of where that relationship is going to go and what opportunities it might lead to. So I would highly suggest posting about networking events that you're attending, posting about speaking engagements that you're attending, posting about relevant information in the industry that you're in, anything to add value, to add education, and to show people that you're part of that community.

Wassia Kamon: Nice, and I think it goes back to what you said earlier about having 500 plus connections. So why that specific number? What is the realistic goal to do it? So you don't feel like you spam or trying to bug people, like what are some of the ways to make it easier because networking can feel awkward.

Amy Sulgrove: It can feel awkward.

The great thing is, though, is that once you get into it, it almost feeds itself and it becomes something that you're addicted to in a weird way. It's a positive addiction, I guess. But when I say, you know, 500 plus connections, I think that if you at least have 500, you at least look like a legitimate candidate.

As far as adding those connections, I would start with adding those people that you've worked with in the past. LinkedIn offers great opportunities for suggestions with alumni from your colleges, people that you potentially worked with, people in the same industry. So start using the LinkedIn. Connection suggestions and continue to build, you know, I definitely say at a short little blurb, a short little note to the connection and just say, you know, it's been a while looking forward to following you on linked in looking forward to connecting again.

Those are always nice for people to receive and then in turn, it makes them want to comment on your. LinkedIn posts as well. I definitely would not just spam. Make sure that the connections you make are meaningful connections through LinkedIn and people that either you can help or they can help you and that you can actually build a business relationship with.

It's not about quantity. It's about quality.

Wassia Kamon: Nice. I love it. What I'm gathering for this. So I, I've been in my resume. I made sure that you had the qualification I needed. I'm building those connections, but then I still may not have the experience maybe that a role may be looking for. So what time of projects or recommendation would you give someone that's really trying to accelerate their career?

Amy Sulgrove: I personally would suggest meeting with your manager, taking on additional projects. There's also networking communities built around different industries and getting involved in those, whether or not it's being a board member, whether or not it's heading up a committee, whether or not it's taking on special projects with your company, with your church.

Many, many industries have opportunities and also potentially getting some additional certifications. Certifications are available in almost every industry, taking additional courses that you can take in multiple industries that don't take a ton of time, but truly offer a ton of opportunity. And so again, it goes back to the networking and finding people that you can potentially get opportunities with.

Wassia Kamon: Nice, nice. And so when you think about what is actually on the resume, what do you actually say in those networking? What are some of the things that may make you look smaller than you should be? Or some of the things that may hinder your credibility when you show up in those networking events? When you show up on LinkedIn, like what are those things that you may not realize are hindering your credibility?

Amy Sulgrove: Absolutely. A lot of people talk about team and team is great. Absolutely. Collaborating with your team is great, but don't minimize your personal worth and don't minimize what you personally have done. So talk about yourself, talk about what you've brought to the table. When we do an interview, when we are networking, we don't want to necessarily hear about what the entire company has done or what the entire team has done.

We want to hear about. what you were able to do and the metrics and the numbers that you were able to achieve. Absolutely. Talk about that.

Wassia Kamon: So people want to know what you as an individual bring to the table, like what could be a good example of that? Because I think it's a problem we women often struggle with.

Amy Sulgrove: We do, but we also have so many achievements in so many areas of life, and it's about the transferable skills as well. So talking about women, I know this is kind of pivoting. However, there's a lot of women that have been looking and are looking at coming back into the workforce after they've taken time off with their children, and they feel like they don't know where to even begin.

There's so many transferable skills that they have had raising their family, working on finances, the list is very long. And it's a matter of pivoting those transferable skills into a role that uses the same skills and getting an opportunity. So there's women all day long that we've worked with that.

It's amazing when they look at, they think about what their resume is and then. We really worked through talking about all of the skills that they've gained. And all of a sudden they, they look at a resume and they're like, wow, I had no idea I even did all of this. It's a matter of the way that you present yourself as well, like you were talking about.

And I truly, I post on it all the time, but I truly say that networking is a game changer.

Wassia Kamon: It is. I mean, it changed my life because a couple of years ago, I was posting on LinkedIn, connected with somebody at the AICPA. They invited me into an invitation only event and there I met a lady and actually a group of ladies.

We did our finance sisterhood and one of them connected me with a person who connected me with your person, with your recruiter, who led me to a VP role and now a CFO role. And it all started a couple years ago, like you said, hanging out with other CFOs, making those connections in real life. at those events, you really have to be out there for those opportunities to come your way.

But then my husband is an introvert. So he's like, well, see, it's easy for you because you're an extrovert and you feed off people energy. You suck our energy. And you're like, yes, let's go. When you think about introverts, it's hard. Like what advice may you have for them? Because it is something that's needed.

Amy Sulgrove: And it is hard. And I'm an extrovert, but even myself starting to go to the networking events. It's a struggle and you get to the parking lot and you think, do I really want to go inside the door? Maybe I'll just turn around, but don't turn around. Yes, go inside. And you know what I suggest? Take a sidekick with you.

Take somebody that is your buddy, your networking buddy, and attend events together. And to me, I feel like when you do that, don't stick together the entire time, walk the room. But when you get into an awkward situation and you look around and there's nobody next to you that you know, And there's nobody that you can talk to.

Go back and find your home base. Find the person that you brought with you and connect with them. And then they'll introduce you to people that they met at the events. And truly what ends up happening is the more events that you go to, the more people you see over and over and you start. building relationships with them.

And before you know it, you know, five, 10 people in the room and it doesn't feel like an awkward situation. I definitely suggest finding that sidekick that will go with you and using that buddy as a whole.

Wassia Kamon: Oh, I love it. I love it. We'll use a buddy because I myself extrovert. Yes. I go to event and I'm tired.

I recently attended a conference in LA and by day three, I was like, I want to be home. I want to be in front of the computer in front of spreadsheet. I want to see. sale. Like I didn't want to see people.

Amy Sulgrove: I don't want to talk to anybody. I know. I hear you. I hear you. Really does work. I think it's a game changer, especially when just getting out to network.

And the other thing is, is your buddy can also be searching to figure out what networking is available, what networking groups have come up, et cetera, and, and opportunities. And so the two of you can sit down, have coffee and. Share notes as far as what events you're going to be going to. And it really is nice to really have a partner in crime when you're going into these events.

Wassia Kamon: That is such a great tip. Thank you so much, Amy.

Now, what would you say are some of the things that, in general, we're thinking about AI, thinking over jobs and things like that? What have you seen in the recruiting space? Do you see a higher demand for people or is it the same as before? Like, what have you been observing on the market?

Amy Sulgrove: You know, I think it changes a little bit throughout the year. We are seeing a hiring increase right now, which is great. Earlier this year, we did see a deficit in technology related roles. They're still not to the levels that we'd like to see them at, but they're starting to come back some in addition to that health care has been on the rise.

So, you know, health care. Yes, I is going to help and in definite ways with health care, but we still are going to need the nurses. We're still going to need the doctors. We're still going to need physicians, et cetera. And so healthcare truly, especially as our demographics. Are living longer. Yes, people are aging and living longer.

The healthcare world has definitely skyrocketed. There's multiple different industries. Hospitality has actually increased as well. Finance, there's a shortage of accountants right now. I'm sure that everybody's heard about that. Accountants do need to go to school longer than the average person, and sometimes the compensation is not there.

For that reason, we are actually seeing a high demand in that particular area and not as many job seekers as we'd like to see. So that's definitely an area that we in general overall are going to need to start tapping in and figuring out how we can entice younger aged individuals to go into the accounting profession.

Wassia Kamon: That's a big debate right now because the, I think it was 75 percent of CPAs are currently retiring and there is like almost no replacement, but when you think about the additional work you have to do, certifications like the CPA, and you also think about the compensation you just brought it up, is if We're not compensating them at a certain level, why would they come?

So are you finding yourself in those conversations with a hiring manager going, Hey, you need to bump this pay if you want to have more talent applying?

Amy Sulgrove: Absolutely. Especially because a lot of what we're having to do is find passive job seekers. And so what that means is we're really hunting and finding people that are currently in a role and not actively searching for a new role and really trying to entice them to make the move.

But oftentimes that is going to require either higher compensation. Or more flexibility in their workplace. So, you know, it might be that one company requires them to be on site, but another company allows them to work remote or maybe come in once a week. And that is actually a huge advantage to certain companies that will allow them the flexibility.

That's actually been something that we've seen that might even trump compensation. Really just kind of thinking outside of the box and honestly having a conversation with the individual as well to find out what they want. So it's not just about what the company wants, but what is it that would make them want to make the move?

Wassia Kamon: Oh, I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for sharing it. It's so good to see outside of my spreadsheets and the systems to hear what's going on. And I'm sure the audience will be so grateful to you for being on the show. So thank you so much, Amy, for joining us today.

Amy Sulgrove: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Of course. See you later. See you later.

Wassia Kamon: That's it for today's episode of the Diary of a CFO. Thank you so much, Amy, for being with us and sharing such great insight into the job market these days and what you're doing. So if you're listening and you are looking to fill a. Key executive role of building out a growing team.

Amy's team is always seeking for companies that value long term partnerships and are committed to finding talent that aligns with their culture and business goals. So reach out to her, either if you're Lincoln or on the website at talent executives. com. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to leave a review, subscribe, and also share with your family, friends, and colleagues.

If you have any topic you would like me to cover in the future, you can email it at ask at thediaryofthecfo. com. Again, the email address is ask at thediaryofthecfo. com. See you soon.