She spent her entire career in accounting and finance. Public accounting, FP&A, financial reporting, corporate accounting. Then she made a move nobody expected. She went into operations. And when she came back to finance as a CFO, everything was different.
In this episode, I sit down in person with Donna Cohen, Chief Financial Officer at CarMax Auto Finance. Donna has been at CarMax for almost 14 years and is a board-ready qualified financial expert with deep expertise in M&A, spinoffs, restructurings, and automation initiatives.
We talk about what operations taught her that finance never could and why she recommends every finance leader try it. How she uses a different part of her brain now that she has seen both sides. The PE experience in the hotel industry that broke her faith in corporate America, including the downsizing, the restructuring, and the day she negotiated her exit and called it her "liberation day."
How she ended up at CarMax after thinking she was done with corporate forever. Her strategy for making change stick inside a large organization, including finding champions, planting seeds, and being comfortable with not getting credit.
How she introduces AI to teams that have never even used ChatGPT at home. The mentor who gave her an engagement to run after just one year and wrote her a letter about growth over perfection that changed how she leads to this day.
The breaking point where she realized she was giving everything to work, her kids, and her husband with nothing left for herself. And why she says she never even knew she was capable of being a CFO.
This episode is brought to you by Fispan. Learn more at fispan.com.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast. Today's
00:00:03 --> 00:00:06 episode is brought to you by Fispan. By embedding
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 banking services directly into ERP and accounting
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 software, Fispan streamlines financial workflows,
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 reduces cost, minimizes manual errors, and enhances
00:00:15 --> 00:00:19 efficiency for businesses of all sizes. To learn
00:00:19 --> 00:00:24 more, visit www .fispan .com. We are live in
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Atlanta and this is a Diary of a CFO podcast.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 I'm your host Wassia Kamon. This is a limited
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 series where I'm sitting down in person with
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 CFOs and senior finance leaders right here in
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 Atlanta for real candid conversations about how
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 they build modern finance organizations, partner
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 with CEOs and boards, and lead through all of
00:00:44 --> 00:00:47 it, hopefully without burning out. Today, I am
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50 super delighted to have with me Donna Cohen. She
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 is the chief financial officer at CarMax Auto
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 Finance. She was previously a board director
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 for CarMax Foundation and is a board -ready qualified
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 financial expert with deep expertise in large
00:01:01 --> 00:01:05 -scale strategic, organizational, and technological
00:01:05 --> 00:01:09 transformation. Her career spans complex transactions
00:01:09 --> 00:01:13 including M&A, spin -offs, corporate restructurings,
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 as well as technology and automation initiatives
00:01:16 --> 00:01:20 to drive business efficiency. She currently oversees
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 a financial strategy for CarMax Auto Finance
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 Division, leading one of the largest players
00:01:25 --> 00:01:29 in the automotive finance industry forward. Welcome
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 to the show, Donna. Thanks for having me, Wassia.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:35 Oh, I am so glad we finally able to do this.
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 A lot of people may not know what happened in
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 the background. So curious to hear how long have
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 you been in Atlanta? What brought you here? Yeah,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 I've been in Atlanta since right before Y2K.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 Oh, wow. Yes. So I've been here for a long time,
00:01:47 --> 00:01:48 but I was actually born and raised in Georgia,
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 right outside of Macon. And so I was born and
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 raised in Georgia. which you don't see very often
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 here in Georgia. That's right. Went to college
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 in North Carolina and then moved to Ohio where
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 I lived for six years and worked for a big four
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 accounting firm there. So got married there,
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 had my first daughter there, and then we decided
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 to move. back to the South. So my husband's from
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 South Carolina. I'm from Georgia. We figured
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 Atlanta was a good middle ground between the
00:02:15 --> 00:02:18 families. So that's what brought me to Atlanta.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 Why Ohio in the first place? OK, good question.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:23 Honestly, I wanted to change the pace. I wanted
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 to see the snow. I wanted different seasons because
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 I lived in the South my whole life. And I have
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 family in Ohio. So I thought, why not try? I
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 thought I'd do it for a couple years and next
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 thing you know it was six. Time flies. But I
00:02:39 --> 00:02:40 shoveled enough snow and it was time to come
00:02:40 --> 00:02:43 back to my roots. Good. And so what drew you
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 to finance and accounting in the first place?
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 Yeah, good question. I was in high school and
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 took an accounting course and found that I really
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 enjoyed it. So I decided to pursue accounting
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 in college. What I learned from some research
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 was that accounting is a profession that gives
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 you exposure to the business world and you kind
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 of have job security as well. So I thought, okay,
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 I can do this. So that's what made me decide
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 to pick accounting. Okay. Me too. It was my first
00:03:08 --> 00:03:10 accounting class. Initially. I wanted to be like
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 a statistician. Oh yeah. You changed your mind
00:03:13 --> 00:03:17 on that? Yeah. So my alternative was. I actually
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 designed my own house when I was in high school.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:21 I was like, this is what I want my house to look
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 like. Um, with a semi -circle driveway in the
00:03:24 --> 00:03:27 front, three car garage side entry. Yeah. I had
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 it all laid out, but I ultimately picked accounting.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 Okay. Good. Good to know. So your career really
00:03:32 --> 00:03:34 has so many transitions, right? You, you went
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 from public accounting and so then you move into
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 corporate accounting, finance in operations and
00:03:40 --> 00:03:44 now you're CFO. So what did each of these transitions
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 really taught you or any? great stories you had
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 from each one of them. Yeah I think the biggest
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 lesson I learned is that life is full of change
00:03:52 --> 00:03:56 and evolution and so you've got to be able to
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58 be resilient to navigate through those changes.
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 I mean it's also taught me not to be afraid to
00:04:01 --> 00:04:05 try something different. So moving from public
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 accounting into my next role was FP &A. I had
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 no idea what I was doing, to be honest. But it
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13 taught me a different lens of the business. And
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 then from there, I moved into financial reporting,
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 then corporate accounting. I've done a whole
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 lot of different things. And then operations,
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 as you mentioned as well, which I will tell you,
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 my experience in operations is one that I would
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 highly recommend for anyone who's in. accounting
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 and finance and has never actually been in an
00:04:29 --> 00:04:33 operation, it just opens your eyes to the way
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 the business actually works. And I was able to
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37 take all of my learnings in accounting and finance
00:04:37 --> 00:04:40 and really connect the dots knowing how the sausage
00:04:40 --> 00:04:43 is made. And it's made me a more effective CFO
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45 as a result of that. Oh, wow. So you recommend
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 people like who wants to be in higher level of
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 finance to definitely try operations, try operations
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 or even other areas of the business. Just go
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 and do something different because it just gives
00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 you a lens that you wouldn't have otherwise had.
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 OK, so how do you feel like operations helped
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 you like once you made the move into becoming
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 a CFO? Yeah, I was able to better understand
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 the numbers. OK, right. Because now I understand
00:05:09 --> 00:05:13 how the sausage is made. Right. And being able
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 to understand what it takes to actually get work
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 done. What it takes, what it means when someone's
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 asking for additional resources, for example,
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 now I can understand why there's a business need
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 versus if I hadn't had that experience, I might
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 just automatically say, no, you don't need those
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 resources. Yeah. You know, so it helps me to
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 make better decisions now in terms of how we
00:05:32 --> 00:05:36 allocate capital. OK. And so what was that transition
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 like, like between operations to CFO? Because
00:05:38 --> 00:05:42 you were in finance, then you went in operations
00:05:42 --> 00:05:43 where you like, buy, I want to finance again.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 And then you had to come back to finance. Like,
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 how was that? Okay, interesting. So I had been
00:05:48 --> 00:05:49 in, as I mentioned, accounting and finance my
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 whole career up until that point. And I had done,
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 I mainly specialized in publicly traded companies.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 So I did a lot of 10 Qs, 10 Ks. And I had done,
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 I don't know, countless Qs and Ks. And I thought,
00:06:00 --> 00:06:01 okay, it's time for me to do something different.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:04 And I talked to the president of the division
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 at that time and she said, you should try your
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 hat in operations. And so when the opportunity
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 presented itself, I took the leap. and moved
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 over into Ops. I had no idea what I was in for,
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 to be honest, but I asked for a challenge, and
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 so I rose to the occasion. Oh, wow. And so coming
00:06:20 --> 00:06:23 back to finance, like, did you have to adjust,
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 like, probably how you view the world change?
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 Oh, absolutely. You use a different part of your
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 brain, too. I realized that, like, as well. So
00:06:30 --> 00:06:34 in Ops, you're really focused on productivity.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 You're focused on people. In finance, it's a
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 totally different lens. So I had to reacclimate
00:06:39 --> 00:06:43 my brain. What I found is I've got the best of
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 both worlds now. I understand the finance perspective.
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 I understand the ops perspective. So I'm able
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 to use both parts of my brain to be a more effective
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 CFO. Yeah, it did take some time to transition
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 back into finance. Like month end close, like
00:06:54 --> 00:06:57 operations, you probably don't have to do all
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 those things. I had no ties whatsoever to...
00:07:00 --> 00:07:01 a month -end cycle when I was in operations,
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 and that was liberating. I bet, like you tell
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 me when I'm like, oh, asking for a friend, like,
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 how was it? Like, what was the typical day, week,
00:07:10 --> 00:07:11 or month in operations? Yeah, now, there's a
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 trade -off, right? I mean, every day was different,
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 and it was, it was fast -paced. Every single
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 day was different. You had no idea what you're
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 walking into. Like, it could be a production
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 issue, it could be an associate issue, or a multitude
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 of those items. Especially when you're running
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 a department with, you know, hundreds of employees,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:28 there's all sorts of things that can go wrong
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 every single day. and you got technology as well
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 that can go wrong, and vendor relationships that
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 can go wrong. So there was always some sort of
00:07:36 --> 00:07:38 fire to deal with from week to week, day to day,
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 but that's what kept things interesting. Okay,
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43 and so I'm curious to hear what your relationship
00:07:43 --> 00:07:45 was like with finance when you were at operations.
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, it was good,
00:07:48 --> 00:07:52 and that's the beauty of, one, seeing different
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 parts of the organization is that you can be
00:07:54 --> 00:07:58 that bridge. So I was able to bridge understandings
00:07:58 --> 00:08:00 between finance and operations because I had
00:08:00 --> 00:08:02 seen both sides of the house. Yeah, so you were
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 not like, I hate these people, I run away from
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 these people. You were like the one person everybody
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 wanted to go to. Yeah, you could make the connection,
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 right? Uh -huh. So yeah. Oh, that is so cool,
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 because I've heard a lot of people saying, you
00:08:14 --> 00:08:15 know, as much as you can in your career, especially
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 earlier, do rotations programs if you can. And
00:08:19 --> 00:08:23 I'm curious to hear, like in one of those transitions,
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 what do you feel like was the hardest transition?
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 Was it coming from public accounting to corporate
00:08:29 --> 00:08:33 FPNA? Or was it from operations to becoming CFO?
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 I'm curious to hear what would you say was the
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 hardest one and how did you navigate? Yeah, so.
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 My most difficult transition just thinking about
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 my whole career span was probably when I worked
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 in the hotel industry. So I worked for an owner
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 operator of hotels and I was the corporate controller
00:08:49 --> 00:08:52 there and the company was going through some
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 difficult financial times and we had to make
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 some decisions about how are we going to sustain
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 the business. So we looked at strategic alternatives
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 and ultimately decided to take the company private.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 So we found a private equity firm to buy the
00:09:06 --> 00:09:08 company. And that was a difficult transition.
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 It was difficult from a number of perspectives.
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 Number one, I worked a ton of hours to make that
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 happen. But then number two, we had to deal with
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 transitioning the way the business operated because
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 the PE firm had a different lens or a different
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 view of how the company needed to operate. So
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 we had to, for example, outsource all of the
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 management of the hotels to third party management
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 companies. So with that came also restructuring
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 some of our lending agreements, but then most
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 importantly had to deal with some downsizing
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 of staff. So that was probably my most difficult
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 transition of all. Wow. So a lot of work, a lot
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 of transition just in terms of how the business
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 operates, but then most importantly the people
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 aspect. Yeah, the people aspect is the has been
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 also the hardest for me in my career because
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 I was also part of a company that had to let
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 go of almost half of a business unit. And being
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 that finance person and it was back when we're
00:10:03 --> 00:10:07 all in person. So like I knew the people that
00:10:07 --> 00:10:11 were on the list. I couldn't sleep at night.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:14 Yeah. Like, how did you... I'm curious to hear,
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 like, what was your experience like, and how
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 maybe changed how you lead today. Yeah, this
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 is a good question. Honestly, it had a profound
00:10:22 --> 00:10:26 impact on how I viewed the business world. And
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 at that point in time, I made the decision that
00:10:28 --> 00:10:30 I didn't want to work for this company anymore.
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 Because I didn't feel like the P .E. firm that
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 acquired the company really valued employees.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 And to me, like, the world doesn't work without
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 good employees. And the culture was just... was
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 ruined. So at that point, I had lost confidence
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 in corporate America and I decided I was going
00:10:46 --> 00:10:50 to retire from corporate. And then I was going
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 to probably transition into the nonprofit world.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 That's kind of what I had in my head. So after
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 I got everything through the transition, I took
00:10:57 --> 00:11:01 my contract and negotiated an exit strategy and
00:11:01 --> 00:11:05 called it my liberation day. And left and thought
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 again, I was done with corporate for years. And
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 so I volunteered with my girls. They went to
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12 school at a small Christian school at the time
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15 and they were working on one just kind of maturing.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 and also getting accredited. So I volunteered
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 there and helped them get accredited. And once
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 we kind of crossed that threshold, I thought,
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 okay, now I'll go and look for that next nonprofit
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 opportunity. And then I got a call from a recruiter
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 about this great company that I honestly didn't
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 believe the words that were coming out of their
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 mouths because again, I had that experience,
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 but found out that it was the truth. It was really
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 a good company to work for, great culture. really
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 aligned with my values, so decided to come and
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 work at CarMax and have been here now for almost
00:11:46 --> 00:11:50 14 years. Wow. So what was it like coming back
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 to the corporate world? Because I'm always like,
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 I know if I no longer work, it'll be hard for
00:11:55 --> 00:11:59 me to, you won't see me back. Yeah. Yeah. Probably.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 So curious to hear what was that transition like?
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 It actually wasn't bad at all. I mean, I felt
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06 like I was coming back home almost. It was very
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 interesting. Like I said, the culture is second
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 to none. It's a great place to work for like
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 decades in a row, recognized by fortune. And
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 yeah, so it just felt like all of the skills
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 that I had acquired, my people skills and leadership
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 skills as well, in addition to the way that I
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 value employees, like it felt like the marriage
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 that I was looking for. Your happy place. Yeah.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 Now curiously here. Because leading to change
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 or anything at this level of a company, a company
00:12:34 --> 00:12:38 that size, is not always easy. Like people often
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 think, oh you just ask this and this happens.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 You know how the sausage is made. So let's take
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 a quick break right here. And I want to take
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00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 -S -P -A -N .com. And let's get back to this
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 episode with Donna. So curious to hear what strategies,
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 what are your go -to moves when you're trying
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 to make change stick in such a large organization?
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 Yeah. I mean, I think it starts with effective
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49 relationships. You got to have strong relationships
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 with people so that you can get the buy -in.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 but then also it's the communication. So explaining
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 the why behind the decision that's being made
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 and tying it to the vision, where are we going
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 and how you fit into it. That's what motivates
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06 people and gets them on board with the change.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 Now you are always going to have naysayers, but
00:14:09 --> 00:14:12 if you can find those key people in the organization
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 that can be your champions and help shepherd
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 that change through. That's a winning proposition.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 OK. So having a good communication plan, finding
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 your champions to share your message and then
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 make it happen. That's right. Now, thinking about
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 technology, because a lot of time when we think
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 about change, we think implementing a new tool.
00:14:31 --> 00:14:34 But it's more than that. There's change leadership,
00:14:34 --> 00:14:37 change management, digital transformation. How
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 do you go about it and helping people see the
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 light at the end of the tunnel? Because I feel
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 like at some point, it was like change fatigue.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47 We've done this, we changed this, we're tired.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49 How do you manage that? Yeah, it's hard, right?
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 I mean, people don't like you to move their cheese.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 Yes. Let's keep it real. But as we talked about
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58 earlier, like change is inevitable. If you stay
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 stagnant, you're already behind. And, you know,
00:15:01 --> 00:15:02 there are a lot of companies that have failed
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 because they didn't move when they needed to.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 So at the end of the day, you have to explain
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 that to people. I was very honest with my associates
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 about. how we can't stand still and what the
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 repercussions are if we do as an organization.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 So that's number one is really you got to explain
00:15:17 --> 00:15:20 to people the reason behind the change. Why do
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 we need to make a change? And then you've got
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 to explain to them how important they are to
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 making the change happen. So it's not just I
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 need this done. It's like I need you to do this
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 and here's why you're so important to our success.
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 Nice. Now, when you think about AI, I realize
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 a lot of people could be skeptical about bringing
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 AI into organizations. That's something you've
00:15:43 --> 00:15:44 been really at the forefront. So curious to hear
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 your experience there as well. Yeah, it's scary
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 for people, especially people who aren't necessarily
00:15:50 --> 00:15:55 technology leaning. Right. And I remember meeting
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 with some associates probably about six months
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 ago, and I asked them to raise their hands if
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 they used AI at home. Like, have you used it?
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 And there were handful of people that had never
00:16:05 --> 00:16:09 even used ChatGBT or anything at home even. And
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 so I encouraged them to just try it. Like, try
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 it to make a recipe. Tell ChatGBT what ingredients
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 you have in your refrigerator, in your pantry,
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 and that you need a recipe, and it'll do it for
00:16:21 --> 00:16:22 you. Like, just give them some things they can
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 do just to get familiar with it. I think you
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 gotta take baby steps with some people. Like,
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 you gotta meet people where they are, essentially.
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 So, baby steps, meet people where they are, and
00:16:31 --> 00:16:33 then help them understand how it can be their
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 assistant as opposed to a replacement. Oh, that's
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 a nice one. But it's so hard to do, though. I
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 feel like I hear that a lot that, you know, it's
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 the people who use AI, you know, but we humans.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 We are. But let me tell you something. I've seen
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 a lot of technology. I've done a lot of implementations
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 over my career. And while AI is a step function
00:16:55 --> 00:16:58 change in how we operate, at the end of the day,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01 you still need humans in the loop. AI can't do
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 it by itself. I mean, you probably know from
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 your own experience, you can use those models
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 and it'll spit out something that's very eloquent,
00:17:07 --> 00:17:10 but it's wrong. So at the end of the day, and
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 that's another thing that I've told people is
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 like, you can use AI as your assistant, but ultimately
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 that work product is yours. So you need to validate
00:17:16 --> 00:17:17 and make sure that it's accurate. And I think
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 that also helps to make people realize, okay,
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 this is my assistant. It's not replacing me.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:26 Mm -hmm. I really like how you phrased it because
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 yeah, it has to be your assistant because I always
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 feel like people will always need an accountant
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 to be accountable for something because you won't
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 be able to say, hey, the model did it. It's not
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 me. Like AI did it. I don't feel like it will
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 fly. No, it will not. It will not because it's
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41 your work product. It is. It is. And you kind
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 of have to review it like just like you review
00:17:43 --> 00:17:47 a junior, you know. Doing their work like you
00:17:47 --> 00:17:48 didn't just send it to the board, right? That's
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 right So what are some of the things that you
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 think could be easy baby steps within a finance
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 function to bring in AI? Yeah, so we've been
00:17:57 --> 00:18:00 using it for email Okay, like hey, let's use
00:18:00 --> 00:18:04 it to sort a email or prioritize email. Let's
00:18:04 --> 00:18:08 also use it to Identify things that need top
00:18:08 --> 00:18:14 priority, right? Let's use it to to summarize
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 results So we use it to summarize results. We
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 also use a tool that has really streamlined the
00:18:20 --> 00:18:24 way that we reconcile accounts in the core accounting
00:18:24 --> 00:18:28 function so that they can focus on researching
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 those reconciling items as opposed to all of
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 the steps that it takes to get to the point of
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 reconciliation. Yeah, like that part of AI, like
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 how can we automate the things that we don't
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 like? That's right. That's why I need an assistant.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 I still need AI to cook for me, but it hasn't
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 happened yet. Not yet. Not yet. So when you think
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 about your role at your organization, only prior
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 organization, what was one project, the one thing
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 you did that you were so proud of? Gosh, there
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 are a lot of things I'm proud of. A lot of things
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 that I've messed up as well. Oh, which one? Where
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 do you want to go? I mean, I can go all the way
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 back to the beginning of my career when I was
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 at a public accounting firm, and I had been with
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 the firm for one year. And this partner who was
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 a mentor to me picked me up and said, I need
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 you to run this engagement. I've been with the
00:19:16 --> 00:19:17 company for a year. I was like, what does that
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 even mean? Yeah, right. I don't know. But she
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22 was like, you can do it. I just need you. I need
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 you to run this engagement. It was a brand new
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 engagement for us as well. So I had no idea what
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 I was doing. There is no prior papers. I had
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32 no idea. I royally bombed that thing. But I learned
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 a lot. And I will never forget, she wrote me
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 this beautiful letter and she talked about how
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 she didn't expect perfection because again, new
00:19:41 --> 00:19:45 engagement. one year associate. But she talked
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 about all the attributes, the things I did well,
00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 the things that I brought to the table. And it
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 really made me realize that it's not about perfection,
00:19:52 --> 00:19:56 it's about growth. And that's really had an impact
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 on how I lead as well. Like she really impacted
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 my leadership vision and the way that I, the
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 way that I conduct myself. Wow, nice. Speaking
00:20:04 --> 00:20:05 of leadership, it's, you know, when you think
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 about our traditional accounting and finance
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10 curriculum, there's nothing much about leadership
00:20:10 --> 00:20:14 and people skills kind of thing. And then you
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 get to a certain point of your career. It's all
00:20:16 --> 00:20:20 about. It's all about it. your people and relationship
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 skills. So what are some of the things that helped
00:20:22 --> 00:20:23 you? Because I feel like we all learn it the
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 hard way, but you know, anything you may want
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 to share. Yeah, I learned it the hard way, too.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 But I think it's important to find good mentors.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 Like when you see somebody that's a good leader,
00:20:32 --> 00:20:33 you need to reach out to them and ask them for
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 help and ask them, like, how do you do that?
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 What makes you a good leader? And take that advice
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 and go with it. Right. I think having that village
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 of people that you can lean on for support is
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 so important. And honestly, that's better to
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 me in some cases than going to conference or
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 taking a course like hearing it directly from
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54 somebody that you can ask questions and tailor
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 it to meet your needs individually is the most
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 powerful way to learn in my opinion. Yeah because
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 I've read books I've you know you try all the
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 courses but definitely what I've the things I
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 remember that stayed the most with me like you
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 said is mm -hmm like when somebody talked about
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 the experience and how they did how they went
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 left instead of going right is in those moments.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 But I'm curious to hear now that so many people
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20 are working remotely versus in person, do you
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 feel like we are missing some of that? Because
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 I learned a lot in my career in those in -person
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 moments. So now I'm thinking about people not
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 coming through when it's all remote. What do
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 you think? Yeah, I mean, I think. Number one,
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 I think that there's value in having the ability,
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 the flexibility to work remotely. No doubt about
00:21:39 --> 00:21:40 it. I mean, I think about when I was raising
00:21:40 --> 00:21:43 my children, it would have been nice to have
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45 that flexibility. I had a lot of stress on me
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 trying to deal with the Atlanta traffic and carrying
00:21:47 --> 00:21:51 that full career workload as well. But to answer
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 your question directly, I do think that you do
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 lose some of that. what you're describing, when
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 you're not able to to interact with people face
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 to face, you lose some of the ability to observe
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 those behaviors. Yes. And adapt to some of those
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 behaviors. Also, just relationship building.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:09 It's hard to build relationships on a screen.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 It's not impossible, but it just takes more effort.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 So I would say for people who work remotely,
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 you just have to invest more in building those
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 relationships than you would if you naturally
00:22:20 --> 00:22:23 had those interactions in a hybrid or in person
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 environment. I agree. I agree. Because I feel
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 like even seeing somebody once, like in person,
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 I'm like, oh, I know Donna better because she
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 sits right here. Then we can be virtual all year
00:22:33 --> 00:22:36 long. We're fine. Right. So I do agree that it
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 does make a difference. And I would have appreciated
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 as well the flexibility when my kids were in
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 diapers and I had to rush to the daycare before
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 they closed on me. I did pay a lot of late fees.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 Yes. When you're sitting behind an accident or
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 whatever and you can't get there on time. Yes.
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 You're stressed out. It is. So becoming an executive
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 at this level, you probably had to. give up a
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 few things along the way or how to go through
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 things that people may not realize things that
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 are tough in that journey. Mind sharing any of
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 them that probably shaped how you are now? Yeah.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 I mean, I will tell you, like when the girls
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 were actively involved in soccer and cheer and
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 everything else and you got the full time job
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 and the traffic and all of that and all of the
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 transformation that we talked about earlier on
00:23:21 --> 00:23:24 top of just the regular nine to five work. Yeah.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 I reached a breaking point. Like I realized that
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29 I was stretched. my limit. So I was giving to
00:23:29 --> 00:23:31 work. I was giving to the kids. I was giving
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 what was left over to my husband, who thank you
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 so much for putting up with me. And then I had
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 nothing left for myself. And it took a while
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42 to realize that I was empty, and I needed help.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 So I asked him for support. We sat down. He was
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 like, let's figure this out. So we sat down.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:48 I came up with a plan on how we were going to
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 divide responsibilities in a way that I was able
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 to be better to myself as well as everybody else,
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 all of my stakeholders, including myself. Wow.
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 I'll pause right here because... What you said,
00:24:01 --> 00:24:04 I didn't realize that I was empty. I came to
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 that realization just last December. Oh, yeah.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 And I literally booked an hotel room, just me,
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 for three days. I left husband, kids at home,
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 like, OK, what happened to you guys right now?
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 I just need me. I just need me. And it is so
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 true. We go, go, go, go, go, and we don't realize
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 we're running on an empty tank. So curious to
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 hear for you, what kind of habits or routines
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28 do you have now? Because now your kids are older.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 But work is still the work. Do you have checkpoints,
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33 dates with yourself? Asking for a friend, of
00:24:33 --> 00:24:35 course. Yes. There's some things that I have
00:24:35 --> 00:24:39 to have. I have to have my nails done every three
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 weeks. I have to have my hair done. every two
00:24:42 --> 00:24:46 weeks. I have to have my massage at least once
00:24:46 --> 00:24:47 every two months, but preferably once a month
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 if it'll work out. I have to have time with my
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 friends. Like I'm going to brunch tomorrow. Like
00:24:52 --> 00:24:53 those are things that are non -negotiable to
00:24:53 --> 00:24:57 keep me sane and keep my tank from being empty.
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 And then also there's date night. Like, I had
00:24:59 --> 00:25:01 to have my date night. Oh, that is so cool. I
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03 am so using it. Because I do my massage once
00:25:03 --> 00:25:08 a month. My nails, you never know. My hair, oh
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 well. But definitely want to be like you when
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 I grow up. So thank you so much for sharing.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 Couple more questions for you. So when you look
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 back at your own career, what would you say are
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 some of the things that helped you most in your
00:25:22 --> 00:25:26 executive journey? There's a lot. There's a lot.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 So I will start with something that we talked
00:25:29 --> 00:25:33 about previously, which is having a support system.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36 So a network of people that you can lean on for
00:25:36 --> 00:25:39 advice and input within your organization, but
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 then also outside of your organization. So that's
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 important. Also, I mean, my relationship with
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 my spouse is just super important to me. Like,
00:25:47 --> 00:25:51 that's the bedrock of who I am. And without that
00:25:51 --> 00:25:57 relationship, the other stuff doesn't work. I
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 feel like I have to say the same thing. So honey,
00:25:59 --> 00:26:04 yes. Yeah, but it's those relationships that
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 matter. And I will tell you, as an introvert,
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 it took me a while to realize that I still needed
00:26:09 --> 00:26:12 relationships, but I just don't need to be every
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15 single day connected to those relationships.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 That's what I had to realize. But yeah, relationships
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 are super important to creating what I need to
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24 be successful as a leader. Now, you mentioned
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 being an introvert. Most of the CFOs I've interviewed
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 are all introverts. I'm one of the few, like,
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31 black sheep in the group being an extrovert.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34 And it's interesting how a lot of people think
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 that being an extrovert gives you an edge in
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 terms of communication, but I think it's the
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 other way around. because you listen more than
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 probably I do. So what would you say to the people
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 who think that being an introvert is not an advantage?
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 Because I really think it is. You can use it
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 as a competitive advantage in your career. So
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 I got some really good advice from an executive
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 coach once when I was going through a development
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 program. And he said to me, because here's my
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 pet peeve. My pet peeve is being in a room full
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04 of people and You may be familiar with this,
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 but you've got the one or two people that dominate
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 the conversation. And so you're just sitting
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 there as an introvert going, well, I've got nothing
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 else to contribute because you've already said
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 what I was going to say. But what he said was
00:27:15 --> 00:27:17 you have to make your voice heard. So it can
00:27:17 --> 00:27:21 be a matter of you just recapping what you heard
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 and making sure that everybody's on board. So
00:27:23 --> 00:27:26 seeking that consensus. Or you can have an accountability
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29 partner that you lean on to make sure that your
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 voice is heard. So maybe they bring you into
00:27:31 --> 00:27:34 the conversation. So you do that ahead of time.
00:27:34 --> 00:27:36 But you've got to make your voice heard. And
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38 the other thing is that introverts, like you
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 just said, are good listeners, usually. So listening
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 is a form of communication. In fact, it's a powerful
00:27:44 --> 00:27:47 form of communication. So use those listening
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49 skills to your advantage to then understand where
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 people are coming from so that you can help to
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55 influence the outcomes. Wow, love it. Because
00:27:55 --> 00:27:57 that influencing to me is everything, right?
00:27:57 --> 00:28:00 Because you can have the biggest ideas, all that,
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 but getting people to move is what I realize
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 has been the hardest thing in the role. So how
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08 do you get people that don't report to you to
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11 do what you need them to do? That's like the
00:28:11 --> 00:28:13 toughest thing ever, and it's like 90 % of my
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 job. I think it comes down to what we just talked
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 about, to be honest with you, it's about understanding
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 where somebody's coming from. Because you can't
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 influence somebody if they are all the way left
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 and you want them to go right and you aren't
00:28:26 --> 00:28:28 meeting them where they are, right? So it's about
00:28:28 --> 00:28:31 understanding where that person is and then asking
00:28:31 --> 00:28:34 the right questions to seek to understand how
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 you can get them where you want them to be. Sometimes
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 it's also about planting seeds. Like you plant
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 seeds early. Plant seeds early and then like,
00:28:42 --> 00:28:43 I don't know, three, four months later, you hear
00:28:43 --> 00:28:46 this idea that sounds a lot like what you planted
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48 three, four months ago. Now you have to be okay
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50 with things not, with you not getting credit
00:28:50 --> 00:28:51 for things. I'm not one of those people that
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 cares about the credit as much. You have to be
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 comfortable with that, but that also is an effective
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 tool. Planting seeds, I do that at home with
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02 my husband. I need to do it more at work. So
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04 what would you say is one truth about your career
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07 that you rarely say out loud? That's a good question.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:13 It's when I've noodled. I had no idea that I
00:29:13 --> 00:29:17 was capable of being the CFO of a company and
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 wasn't actively pursuing it. It kind of fell
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22 on my lap, just like every other opportunity
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 I've had. The other thing I don't necessarily
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 say out loud is the way I was able to accomplish
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 that is because of my faith in God. Amen. Wow.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:36 Can't do it by myself, but with Him I can. And
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 now that you are in DC, what What's some of your
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42 proudest moment? How do you stay grounded? Because
00:29:42 --> 00:29:45 it feels surreal, especially when it happened
00:29:45 --> 00:29:47 the way it happened for you. Because so many
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 people, it's like, oh, I pursue this, I pursue
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 this. But for you, it's like, I didn't even see
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 it coming. But you didn't even realize, like
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 you said, you did public accounting, you did
00:29:55 --> 00:29:59 FP &A. You did all the things, really, that make
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 up a strong CFO. didn't even know it. You didn't
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 even know it. Like everything was working for
00:30:04 --> 00:30:06 your good in the in the background for that moment.
00:30:07 --> 00:30:08 So now that you're in the seat and you're doing
00:30:08 --> 00:30:11 so great in the seat, when you look like, how
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 does it feel? How do you stay grounded? Like,
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 how do you not float in the? I think is having
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 really good parents that keep you humble. And
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 that's just who I am as a person, honestly. And
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 I get my value out of seeing other people grow
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 and develop. So that's I think that's the other
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 thing that makes me such an effective leader
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 is I pour into. the next generation of leaders
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 because I want to see them grow and grow beyond
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 even what I'm capable of doing. That's what good
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 looks like to me. Nice, nice and that's such
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40 a great definition of success and that's what
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 I'm hoping to do with this podcast is having
00:30:42 --> 00:30:45 people learn alongside me because you know you
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 cannot talk to thousands of people but right
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 here they'll be learning that from you as well
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 so I'm incredibly grateful for you to share that
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 with me and with the rest of us. Thank you. Good
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 to be here. OK, so a couple more questions. So
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 if you could change one thing about being here
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 in Atlanta and the finance community here in
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 Atlanta, how we support finance leaders, hopefully.
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 What would you say? You know, I'm not equipped
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10 to answer that question, and I'll tell you why.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:11 Remember how I said I was an introvert? So you
00:31:11 --> 00:31:15 don't go to any events? I'm the one that's not
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17 plugged in like I need to be. Now, that's something
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 I'm planning to change. But yeah, I think it's
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 more of a me thing than I can speak to for the
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 community. I'm an extrovert and I still don't
00:31:26 --> 00:31:29 go to a lot of those events. Really? Networking
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 is awkward, even though I'm an extrovert. It's
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 still awkward, like to be and do the little chit
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 chat. I don't know. Okay, well see, it's good
00:31:37 --> 00:31:39 to hear that from an introvert's perspective.
00:31:40 --> 00:31:41 It's good to hear that an extrovert feels that
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 way too. Yeah, so I, for example, a couple months
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 ago now, I went to the Las Vegas conference with
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 the AICPA. Okay. After day two, I was, I want
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 to go home. I want to be in front of a spreadsheet.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 And I'm like, man, I'm an extrovert, but it's
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 a lot. And I don't know if it's because the job
00:31:57 --> 00:32:02 is a lot or I'm just getting old. Maybe you're
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 just evolving. Yeah, maybe, maybe I want to say
00:32:05 --> 00:32:10 age. Okay. Okay. Last question. Curious to hear
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 what's your favorite thing to do here in Atlanta
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 outside of work? I'm a foodie, so I like to eat.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:20 Me too! Okay. Now, I am a creature of habit,
00:32:20 --> 00:32:23 so you won't see me venturing out to new restaurants
00:32:23 --> 00:32:26 even though I plan to. I always just end up,
00:32:26 --> 00:32:27 like, going back to... Ordering the same thing
00:32:27 --> 00:32:29 at the same place? Okay, what are your go -to
00:32:29 --> 00:32:34 places? That's right. So, for an impromptu, it's
00:32:34 --> 00:32:37 South City Kitchen. There's one near my house
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 and so we can usually drop in and get in there
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 as long as we get there before, you know, the
00:32:42 --> 00:32:46 seven, eight o 'clock rush. But I love CNS. So
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48 have you ever been to CNS? It's a seafood. steak
00:32:48 --> 00:32:51 restaurant. There's one in Gallery. I think there's
00:32:51 --> 00:32:52 one in Sandy Springs and maybe somewhere else.
00:32:53 --> 00:32:56 I love CNS. That's one of my favorite. What do
00:32:56 --> 00:32:58 you usually order there? Anything with seafood
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 is like I'm hooked. Because I'm a big juicy crab
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 person. I don't know if you've heard of the juicy
00:33:02 --> 00:33:06 crab. Oh, Lord, don't do it. I used to over and
00:33:06 --> 00:33:10 doze there. But yeah, I typically will do like
00:33:10 --> 00:33:12 some sort of seafood there because that's my
00:33:12 --> 00:33:15 thing. I'm not really big into steak. OK, OK.
00:33:15 --> 00:33:17 But any dish I've had there has been amazing.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:22 I've been keeping notes for food, because yeah,
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 food and Netflix are my, oh. Those are your go
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 -tos. Yes, when I need to unwind. And on Netflix
00:33:28 --> 00:33:30 is usually the science fiction show, because
00:33:30 --> 00:33:33 I don't want any, you know, reality show. Like
00:33:33 --> 00:33:35 the reality is not what I want to see. I want
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 like the future, people flying and superheroes.
00:33:39 --> 00:33:42 So anything else you would like to share with
00:33:42 --> 00:33:43 the audience? Like when you, especially when
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45 you look back at your career. Being in Atlanta
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47 and all the great things you achieve, what would
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49 be one advice you would give? My advice is just
00:33:49 --> 00:33:52 to be open for the possibilities. That's the
00:33:52 --> 00:33:55 advice I give. OK. Thank you so much for sharing.
00:33:55 --> 00:33:57 Thanks for having me. I appreciate you having
00:33:57 --> 00:33:59 me on the show. We definitely need to literally
00:33:59 --> 00:34:03 connect after this for food. Thank you. And that's
00:34:03 --> 00:34:06 it for today's episode of the Diary of a CFO
00:34:06 --> 00:34:09 live in Atlanta. There's something about doing
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 this in person that you can feel from this side
00:34:11 --> 00:34:14 of the mic. If it felt like on your stew, subscribe
00:34:14 --> 00:34:17 and send it to someone who may need it. As always,
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 if you have any questions, make sure to send
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 me an email and ask at thediaryofacfo .com or
00:34:23 --> 00:34:26 visit thediaryofacfo .com. for more resources
00:34:26 --> 00:34:28 about how you can take your career to the next
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 level. I'll see you in the next one.