Jenny Fuss has led finance teams in Germany, China, and the United States. Each move meant learning a new way of working. In this episode, she shares how working and living in three different countries shaped her leadership style and helped her lead major transformations with clarity and confidence.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:07 Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast, the
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 podcast where finance leaders share the lessons,
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 challenges, and wins that shape their careers
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 as well as their organizations. I'm your host,
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 Waseya Kaman, and today I'm super delighted to
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 have with me Jenny Fuss. She is the CFO of Crowley
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 Maritime, where she drives finance forwards as
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 a strategic partner. Over the course of her career,
00:00:26 --> 00:00:27 she has led finance across different continents,
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 industries, and company sizes. She's known for
00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 her evolutionary mindset and passion for finance
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 and digital transformations. She's always curious
00:00:37 --> 00:00:40 and challenges conventional thinking and sharing
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 finance is not just reactive, but is a force
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 for transformation and growth. Welcome to the
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 show. Thank you for having me. I was waiting
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 for a long time for it. I know I had to reschedule
00:00:51 --> 00:00:55 it once. That was so much looking forward. I'm
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 a big fan of you and how you see your work and
00:00:58 --> 00:01:02 life that so resonate with me. So excited to
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 have some quality time with you today. Oh, thank
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 you so much, Jenny. I really appreciate it. I've
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 been following you too. So super excited we could
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 finally make it because I know as CFOs time is
00:01:13 --> 00:01:18 interesting, right? Yes, it is. So let's just
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 start with your career journey, your fascinating
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 career. over different continents, industries.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 So I wanted to start with what drew you to finance
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 and accounting in the first place and then moving
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 on to where you are now. I think there's one
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 ingredient that sticks out for me is that I'm
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 a very curious person and want to understand
00:01:37 --> 00:01:41 how business works, right? How decisions are
00:01:41 --> 00:01:45 made, how we can make them better. And so for
00:01:45 --> 00:01:49 me, finance is the lens where you have to understand
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 the full picture. and you also get access to
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 it. So my journey literally started on the shop
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 floor. Of course, I was going through a very
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00 financial apprenticeship, but I was working in
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 a manufacturing environment. So I raised my hand,
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 let me get to the shop floor where the real things
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 are happening. And it was wonderful to connect
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 with the operations and then being able to connect
00:02:12 --> 00:02:16 to numbers. And over time, right, I realized
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 that that's my passion to help others to grind,
00:02:20 --> 00:02:23 I call it a different set of sunglasses, right?
00:02:23 --> 00:02:28 Getting different perspectives. And why? I think
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 that will help to create clarity. I'm able to
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 bring the right data for decision making. And
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 I think that really carried me throughout my
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 journey, right? I'm German. It's probably very
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 clear because of my accent. I lived in China.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:48 I'm now in the US. I'm now leading as a CFO of
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 Crawley. I'm also super excited that in this
00:02:51 --> 00:02:55 role, I'm also taking procurement in my scope.
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 And that is when you have the true end -to -end
00:02:58 --> 00:03:02 view of the entire value creation. That's great.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 And I worked before in procurement as a science
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 professional that I truly think we have to elevate
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 that people see procurement as a cost center.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 And really understand that's the performance
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 engine where we have critical levers to drive
00:03:18 --> 00:03:23 results, save the strategy, and then fuel basically.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 And all companies are going through a transformation,
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 and we have very uncertain times right now. But
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 I'm just inspired being in finance, sitting at
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 the table and shaping the future. Oh, that's
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38 awesome. And for me, when I was thinking about
00:03:38 --> 00:03:42 you and seeing how you went from Germany to China,
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 then to the US, that's like a cultural crash
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 course. So how would you say working in different
00:03:48 --> 00:03:52 parts have shaped the way you lead today? First
00:03:52 --> 00:03:57 of all, I feel truly gifted to have had the opportunity
00:03:57 --> 00:04:01 to live and work across three continents. Considering
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 that I grew up in a very tiny village of 900
00:04:04 --> 00:04:08 people somewhere and nowhere in Germany, sometimes
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 have this reflection like never in my wildest
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 dreams back then, I would have imagined that
00:04:14 --> 00:04:18 I lead a global team, navigate in boardrooms
00:04:18 --> 00:04:22 in China and in the US. And I think that those
00:04:22 --> 00:04:27 experiences have really deeply shaped me. I think
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 it's taught me about being you know, humility
00:04:30 --> 00:04:34 and the power of listening. Let's go a little
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 bit of stereotyping or generalizing it, right?
00:04:36 --> 00:04:40 In Germany, structure rules, okay? In China,
00:04:41 --> 00:04:43 relationships is everything. In the US, it's
00:04:43 --> 00:04:48 all about speed and bold moves. And I think great
00:04:48 --> 00:04:53 leadership isn't just one size fits all. It's
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 all about having that awareness to adjust your
00:04:56 --> 00:05:00 lenses to the team, to the culture. and to the
00:05:00 --> 00:05:04 moment. And I think that's the superpower that
00:05:04 --> 00:05:08 carries me every day. Oh, that's amazing. Amazing.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 I wanted to go back and maybe share with us a
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 specific example of something that maybe worked
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 great in Germany, but then in another country
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 didn't work well, vice versa. Just think about
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 teams and feedback. The drums are now to be very
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 straightforward. And I admire that because there's
00:05:25 --> 00:05:29 also no BS. You're saying it was the intent to
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 help, but in a different culture that may not
00:05:31 --> 00:05:35 be perceived that way, that can be very disrespectful.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 So when I started leading my team in China, I
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 first started like what I had learned in my environment.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 If something is not to the expectations, you
00:05:45 --> 00:05:50 go say it as it is. No sugar coating, okay? Just
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 very straight from the heart. That did not sell
00:05:53 --> 00:05:57 good in China. So I had to adjust that. And I
00:05:57 --> 00:06:01 had to learn that if I want them to do and see
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 the right things, I have to take a different
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 avenue to still give them feedback, but in a
00:06:07 --> 00:06:11 very different way. And what was for me the magic
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 there by me and define what they all were doing
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 great and good. Suddenly the areas that where
00:06:18 --> 00:06:22 I felt like behind expectations just got lifted.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 And that was a beautiful experience for me in
00:06:25 --> 00:06:29 my personal growth and how I lead. Oh, that's
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 awesome. So today, how do you help your finance
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 team go through transformation, regardless of,
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 like you said, the state where you found them,
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 the culture, or what are some of the things that
00:06:39 --> 00:06:43 you notice that as CFOs, we should be mindful
00:06:43 --> 00:06:47 of as we're trying to build up our teams? It's
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 not magical, but I think it really starts also
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 with creating the awareness we all have about
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 ourselves, how we show up in the world. I always
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 like to encourage people to work on becoming
00:06:58 --> 00:07:02 a better listener, not just to listen, but to
00:07:02 --> 00:07:07 understand, adding empathy to the leadership
00:07:07 --> 00:07:13 style. And then what we all want to expect from
00:07:13 --> 00:07:17 our peers, also for my operational peers, is
00:07:17 --> 00:07:20 thinking together around the edges. I would also
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 say that start with, don't make assumptions,
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 always invite for a debate, welcome different
00:07:27 --> 00:07:31 perspectives. And particularly right now, I would
00:07:31 --> 00:07:35 say really look through the multiple lenses.
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 We live right now in even more uncertain times.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 I mean, changes are coming by the hour. You don't
00:07:42 --> 00:07:45 want to burn your team, right? You have to show
00:07:45 --> 00:07:49 up and build the resilience. And the other point
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 to the resilience, I think, is the clarity. So
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 I'd rather have the people asking, OK, what does
00:07:55 --> 00:07:59 it mean now? And let's strive through it. What
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 is the short term and what's the long term? And
00:08:02 --> 00:08:07 always remind us it's our decision how we respond.
00:08:07 --> 00:08:09 And I feel like that's particularly in the last
00:08:09 --> 00:08:13 few weeks, super important. Yeah, that I think
00:08:13 --> 00:08:17 is the framework blending into my team right
00:08:17 --> 00:08:22 now, not to be subject to that we feel so much
00:08:22 --> 00:08:29 out of control. And I think that also makes me
00:08:29 --> 00:08:31 really proud of how the team is responding to
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 it and approaching it open -minded and sharing
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 their thoughts. And we can weather through this.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 It's yes. It's also how we do it right without
00:08:41 --> 00:08:45 going too crazy. Let's put it that way Without
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 going too crazy. I love it. Yes, you you're right
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 because even in uncertainty something I'm more
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 certain than others right and if you have the
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 right foundations You you really said you setting
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 yourself up for success regardless of what what
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 it looks like on the other end I love how you
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 said clarity When you think about the finance
00:09:05 --> 00:09:09 function, sometimes we are focused on many deadlines
00:09:09 --> 00:09:13 at the same time. Maybe we forget about how the
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 work that we do aligns with the overall strategy
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 of the company. Can you speak a bit about that
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 and how the CFO can be a strategic architect
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26 in all this? I think what always kicks in for
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 me is to what end? So why are we doing this?
00:09:29 --> 00:09:33 What's the short -term outcome? Because that's
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 maybe the deadline driven, but what's in the
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 long run, in the long game? To what end we are
00:09:37 --> 00:09:41 doing that? I approach this like was really enabling
00:09:41 --> 00:09:45 everyone to be aware of that mindset shift. You
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 know, when we think about we want to drive digital
00:09:48 --> 00:09:53 finance transformation, for example. And I feel
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 still a lot of people see that as a technical
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 project. that it's more, because it's a tool
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 for us. It is where then the magic will happen
00:10:02 --> 00:10:06 when we can start asking better questions, challenging
00:10:06 --> 00:10:10 assumptions, and enabling faster decisions. But
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 what I also always like to, as a second point,
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 Lent is, it's not just, you know, first of all,
00:10:17 --> 00:10:18 it's not just about finance. I mean, we are all
00:10:18 --> 00:10:22 working in an ecosystem together. Collaboration
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24 with operation, with sales, everything is super
00:10:24 --> 00:10:29 important. Having that more customer centric
00:10:29 --> 00:10:33 mindset, how can we leverage AI? How we can build
00:10:33 --> 00:10:39 up digital capabilities and simplifying it in
00:10:39 --> 00:10:43 a way that doing business is just easy. And then
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 when I blend back to maybe finance and procurement,
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 I think if we really use the new technology in
00:10:50 --> 00:10:54 that powerful, complimentary way, we will reduce
00:10:54 --> 00:10:58 the manual work, we have more capacity to do
00:10:58 --> 00:11:02 the brain work and consequently have better outcomes.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 You see that many companies have their slogan,
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 customers first, but then you also have to act
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 like that and you have to enable your organization
00:11:11 --> 00:11:15 to do that because same for us, right, in logistics
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 and shipping, our big differentiator is that
00:11:18 --> 00:11:23 we are faster. and can offer customized solutions.
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 And that starts really with having this customer
00:11:26 --> 00:11:30 centric mindset, understanding how they perceive
00:11:30 --> 00:11:34 our services and how easy it is working with
00:11:34 --> 00:11:38 us. Oh, I love it. I love it. I love how you
00:11:38 --> 00:11:41 say easy to make business with us. But sometimes
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 I feel like we saw in the numbers we forget that
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 the ease of doing business is a strategic advantage.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:51 So how do you get to understand that customer
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 perspective? Like, do you go out on service call?
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 Like, what do you do for you or for your team
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00 to really understand how the customers view your
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 services? So We're switching here to the internal
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 lens, right? Like how finance or procurement
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 is supporting the business. Also there, it's
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 very simple. It's initiating a conversation.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:16 It's also about maybe bringing forward. You asked
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 us to do all of this. What are you doing with
00:12:19 --> 00:12:23 that, right? Because all the time, you know,
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 we have that all particular at FP &A. Once upon
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 a time, somebody needed a report on something
00:12:28 --> 00:12:32 and then we keep generating that report. and
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34 asking that open question like, you get this
00:12:34 --> 00:12:38 report. Is it actionable? Is it just a nice to
00:12:38 --> 00:12:42 have? Or is there anything else you really truly
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 need and we are not addressing? It always comes
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 back to understanding from the FP &A perspective
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 and accounting what the business does. But I
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 think just this conversation and we're having
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 that right now. Do you want us doing this? And
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 if we do, I will ask the question, what are you
00:12:59 --> 00:13:03 doing based on that information? I have moved
00:13:03 --> 00:13:05 in the past few years through different companies,
00:13:05 --> 00:13:07 you know, and everyone is at a different stage
00:13:07 --> 00:13:12 of call it digital finance transformation. As
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 a result, sometimes you enter an organization
00:13:14 --> 00:13:18 and you have hundreds of dashboards that we do
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 not need hundreds of dashboards. We don't. And
00:13:21 --> 00:13:25 it's time to narrow down what we truly need and
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 focus on what are we. So, you know, when I look
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 at a dashboard and I'm like, so what? What is
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 the action here? What are we going to do about
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 that? And if the dashboard is not telling me
00:13:35 --> 00:13:40 that, then we should stop producing that. Nice.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 I love it. And I'm sure your teams are loving
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 that too, because there is a lot of things we
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 keep doing because that's the way we've always
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 done it, right? The phrase we all do not like
00:13:50 --> 00:13:55 to hear. So for you, how do you help trim down
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 maybe the dashboards and the KPIs? for people,
00:13:59 --> 00:14:02 like how do you balance maybe operational versus
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 financial KPIs? How do you help people come together
00:14:05 --> 00:14:09 to understand the numbers better? So yeah, how
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 I help my team, you know, my team is just also
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 getting to know me. I just started a few weeks
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 back, but what I have established is that we
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 have an open conversation about it, not only
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 within the finance team, but also, you know,
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 connecting with our sales, commercial teams and
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 operations. So narrow down what we really need
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 because we are in a situation we have a lot of
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 dashboards and a lot of them there's no action
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35 from it. So just by initiating that clarity and
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 direction I can see already the early wins on
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 it. Obviously we need to formalize that better
00:14:41 --> 00:14:46 so I'm about forming like a decision board like
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 what are the dashboards so it's not just a wild
00:14:49 --> 00:14:53 growing grass landscape. And with the intent
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 really to provide that clarity, I hope that that
00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 makes us also more effective and efficient instead
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 of browsing through hundreds of dashboards. There
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 should be probably just one in the morning with
00:15:05 --> 00:15:10 four KPIs and customized to the area. My sales
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 people need something different than maybe the
00:15:13 --> 00:15:15 captain of a ship. I'm really excited about what
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 we have ahead of us and where we can have much
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 better influence. That's awesome. And I like
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24 that. I'm catching you right now in your exploration
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 phase, but this is your second CFO role. So you're
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 probably doing things better. You learn from
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 all the years in your career. So what would you
00:15:33 --> 00:15:36 say a CFO stepping in should do in the first
00:15:36 --> 00:15:40 90 days or six months from your experience? Really
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 connecting with the people and understanding
00:15:43 --> 00:15:47 the business. As simple as that. And I know everyone
00:15:47 --> 00:15:51 is referring to the first 90 days book and it's
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 a good guidance. Reality is very different. As
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 a CFO, nobody waits until you have 30 days and
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 met everyone. Until you have 60 days and you
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 got all the business in. Because when you come
00:16:02 --> 00:16:06 in, you will be immediately in the weeds, right?
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 And balancing that. But take that also as a journey.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 That's part of it. I would say for me, in the
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 first month, it's just like follow the money.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 and you will learn about the business. Oh, I
00:16:19 --> 00:16:24 love it. I love it. End to end. Love it. Great
00:16:24 --> 00:16:27 advice. Thank you for sharing. But what would
00:16:27 --> 00:16:29 you say have helped you throughout your career?
00:16:29 --> 00:16:33 Was it mentors? Because I can only imagine moving
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 across different companies, industry, continents.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:39 What are some of the things that kept you grounded
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 and growing throughout? I definitely would say
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 it is you know, my personal board, let's put
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48 it maybe that way. And that is consistent of
00:16:48 --> 00:16:54 mentors, former bosses, a coach, friends who
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 are working in a very different industry. And
00:16:57 --> 00:17:01 I'm very proud of my board, you know, that's
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 also include my fitness coach, by the way. And
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06 that's very important to me, because you get
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 to the point where like, am I on the right trace
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 here? Like, you know, challenging myself. and
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 having a good sounding board is just excellent
00:17:14 --> 00:17:18 because I think most remarkable and it goes back
00:17:18 --> 00:17:22 when I became CFO of a joint venture in China,
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 so moving across the country as well, I felt
00:17:26 --> 00:17:30 very insecure. I'm like, can I do this actually?
00:17:30 --> 00:17:34 And there were mentors and bosses around me.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 They just took me out for dinner and we had a
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 conversation and they were sharing like how they
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 were growing up in the corporate world and taking
00:17:43 --> 00:17:47 on new adventures and encouraged me like you
00:17:47 --> 00:17:51 never will be 100 % ready for your next role.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:55 You have the ingredients and the rest will come
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 once you start swimming in your new role and
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 that's a very very true advice they gave to me
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 and that absolutely kept me going and interesting
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09 enough I moved through different you know companies
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 but also within companies different divisions
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 where always culture is a little different and
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 you kind of like start not from zero in your
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 network, but kind of like a bit of reset. That
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 is interesting that there's always a saying that
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 kind of like got attached to me no matter where
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 I went. You know, very early somebody said about
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 Jenny, you can throw her in ice cold water and
00:18:31 --> 00:18:35 she will start swimming. And that is always coming
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 back. And I'm very proud of that. And saying
00:18:38 --> 00:18:42 that just to encourage, you know, the next generation
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 of professionals or of those who are at the stage
00:18:45 --> 00:18:50 and thinking about what next is, go in, no fear,
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 be fearless, and then just start swimming. It
00:18:53 --> 00:18:58 works. Oh, I love it for two reasons. One, you
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 work for a company called Crowley Maritime, so
00:19:00 --> 00:19:04 you're in the water, literally in your role.
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 And two, because it reminds me of something you
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 said on LinkedIn about be everything being figure
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 outable, I think of what do you do when you're
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 faced with a situation and you don't know where
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 to start and that confidence, that mantra of
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 you can figure it out. That is so empowering.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:27 And also be really okay and embrace to fail.
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 It's kind of like fail and then there's of course
00:19:30 --> 00:19:35 an end, right? Fail, reflect and try again. Nice.
00:19:36 --> 00:19:40 That is amazing. And so and it leads me to another
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43 another part of digital transformation, because
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 I see you posting a lot about digital transformation
00:19:46 --> 00:19:50 and leading team. What's your approach to that?
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 Because I know earlier you mentioned is not just
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 a technical part. It's also the collaboration.
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 So how do you lead people like the change leadership
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 part of we're going to change? How do you help
00:20:02 --> 00:20:06 people how you get their buy in? and also stay
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 engaged during the whole journey to the end.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:13 Yeah, I think it really starts us again, leaning
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 in on the conversation, providing the clarity,
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 the clarity to what end we are doing it. And
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 that's a long, long vision, right? Because I
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 feel a lot of people take the shortcut and say,
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 ah, it's just reducing head count. That it's
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 more than that, right? I feel it's also for me,
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 digital transformation is an enrichment of how
00:20:33 --> 00:20:38 we work. And just based on what I have seen over
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 the last few years, a lot of companies spending
00:20:41 --> 00:20:46 only between 60 % and 75 % on data gathering,
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 taking the data, people getting into their spreadsheets,
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53 cleaning the data, adjusting it. I mean, in my
00:20:53 --> 00:20:56 world, that's no fun, right? It is maybe doing
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 it once to drill in is a good experience to understand
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 where data are coming from. But we don't need
00:21:01 --> 00:21:06 to repeat that, right? We are smart people. shifting
00:21:06 --> 00:21:10 from less manual work to actually seeing it and
00:21:10 --> 00:21:16 then having the time to talk with your counter
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 partner, be it in sales, be it in the operations,
00:21:19 --> 00:21:23 be it in procurement, to drive where you can
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 have impact. I think that's much more fascinating
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 than just having a job where you spend six, seven
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 hours a day and just trying to get the data together.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 make some sort of sense. And I hope I will learn
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 with my team now that they get inspired by that
00:21:39 --> 00:21:44 idea that their work is going forward much more
00:21:44 --> 00:21:48 valuable and much more impactful. And I will
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 learn if I'm doing a good job on that, because
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 I'm also a feedback seeker. Yeah, I just love
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 to inspire them that, yes, we are in a change
00:21:57 --> 00:22:01 or call it evolution, that it is to a better,
00:22:01 --> 00:22:05 right, to a better setting. as finance or procurement
00:22:05 --> 00:22:09 at the table. That is awesome. That is awesome.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:12 And yes, I mean, anybody I know in finance of
00:22:12 --> 00:22:16 the county will say, yes, like don't want to
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 copy paste all day numbers from one part to the
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 other to do the same thing three, four, five
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 times. But What I've also noticed is with so
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 many technology or tools out there, it's difficult
00:22:27 --> 00:22:31 to find what solution will fit what you need.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 And sometimes we end up with three, four, five
00:22:33 --> 00:22:36 different software that solve three, four, five
00:22:36 --> 00:22:39 different things, different ways. Have you experienced
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41 it too? Like, how do you deal with it moving
00:22:41 --> 00:22:45 forward? Yes, and I think we have to realize
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 we are all in that, right? It's happening. The
00:22:48 --> 00:22:52 way I found best to prove that we are making
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 the right decision is, what is the problem statement
00:22:55 --> 00:22:59 we like to solve? Very often, I think there's
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 not yet clarity what we are trying to solve.
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 And I'm just going through that phase right now.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 It was announced I'm the new CFO of Crawley.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:12 I get called from vendors. And I literally saying,
00:23:12 --> 00:23:16 thanks for reaching out and making me aware that
00:23:16 --> 00:23:21 you do exist. That the way I do my business works.
00:23:21 --> 00:23:24 the other way around. I need to identify the
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 problem statement because then I can better define
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 what is what we need and the scope. And then
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 I can go out and maybe see what is the capabilities
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37 of those tools, right? That's number one. Number
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 two is, first of all, we do have already a lot
00:23:40 --> 00:23:45 of technology. So either people are not yet trained
00:23:45 --> 00:23:50 on how to really powerful use it. Or there's
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 one connection in all those always complex landscape
00:23:53 --> 00:23:57 that's not connected yet well. But it also starts
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 with teaching your people how to use it. And
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 we're just doing that. Our leadership team is
00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 using Co -Pilot, and we do that to lead first,
00:24:07 --> 00:24:11 to encourage our people to do the same. And I
00:24:11 --> 00:24:15 love it, because when you see your CEO using
00:24:15 --> 00:24:19 Co -Pilot, how cool is that? And even like, you
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 know, also that openness sharing, like, you know,
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 sometimes we fail in using that new technology,
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 but that share is very important one. So I just
00:24:28 --> 00:24:32 love that we have this mindset of let's try certain
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 things, but also be cautious of we cannot, you
00:24:35 --> 00:24:39 know, just add all the fancy tools just to have
00:24:39 --> 00:24:43 them. We have to think through what problem we
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 need to solve and then find the right technology.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 And I laugh when you said on LinkedIn, as soon
00:24:49 --> 00:24:54 as it was written, I was a CFO. Man, like the
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 email starting flooding, the text messaging.
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58 I know you're looking into a new system for this.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:00 And I'm like, no, I know you're looking into
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 this. So what would you say as some maybe advice
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 to people when they're trying to sell something
00:25:05 --> 00:25:10 to a new CFO? Like, don't. It goes back to, for
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 me that is, you know, if I would be the CFO of
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 those companies, their sales performance. must
00:25:16 --> 00:25:20 suck because it goes back to have a customer
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 centric mindset. Don't call me based on an assumption.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28 It won't work. It's wasting your time, right?
00:25:28 --> 00:25:32 I have one company that has, I would probably,
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 I would write to the CEO or CFO. I mean, whatever
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 they are using a CRM tool, if they are using
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 it, but they really suck. That company until
00:25:41 --> 00:25:45 now, eight different people are approaching me.
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 I keep saying, take me off your call list. Oh
00:25:48 --> 00:25:53 my. Just take me off your call list. And you
00:25:53 --> 00:25:54 know, I'm just seeing it like, you know, watching
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 out in terms of like, because maybe they don't
00:25:58 --> 00:25:59 have the right leadership, maybe they don't have
00:25:59 --> 00:26:03 the right guidance, right? And secondly is people
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 have to do their homework first. If you call
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 your customer, better have done your homework,
00:26:09 --> 00:26:13 right? Or you are prepared to ask the question
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16 that leads you to the insights on how you can
00:26:16 --> 00:26:20 serve that customer. That I'm not giving a contract
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 to somebody just because they called me. Yes,
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 absolutely. I 1 , 1 million times agree.
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 Thank you so much. But it's interesting how we
00:26:30 --> 00:26:33 all go through the same thing. And when you think
00:26:33 --> 00:26:36 about your first... 90 days the first six months
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 in the cfo it is so overwhelming and it's definitely
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 a pressure that you don't want to have in addition
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 of all the things you're trying to learn the
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 the new people because I like how you said earlier
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 even within the same company if you were deputy
00:26:49 --> 00:26:51 cfo in this area and you switch it's a different
00:26:51 --> 00:26:55 culture it is yeah that you have to adapt to
00:26:55 --> 00:27:00 yeah awesome, so One of my last questions is
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04 what would you say is a recent trend or shift
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 that you think leaders are not paying attention
00:27:06 --> 00:27:10 to enough? Is there something that you see maybe
00:27:10 --> 00:27:14 in the news or in how you see new finance talent?
00:27:15 --> 00:27:16 Like is this something that as finance leaders
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19 we should be paying extra attention to right
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 now? That's a good question. That's about thinking
00:27:22 --> 00:27:27 around the edges here. Love it. I think It is
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 around that example, like the digital finance
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 transformation that really requires a mindset
00:27:32 --> 00:27:36 shift. It's not just about reducing costs or
00:27:36 --> 00:27:39 anything. It's really also creating a future
00:27:39 --> 00:27:45 workplace and opportunities in jobs to make people
00:27:45 --> 00:27:49 fulfilled. Because I strongly believe that that
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 will drive also much better performance of a
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54 company. when people have the sense that what
00:27:54 --> 00:28:00 they are doing is valued and has impact and is
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 not seen as an administrative burden or something
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 like that. I think that sounds maybe very rosy,
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 but I think going forward, that will be so important
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 that as a company to attract the right talents.
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 We're still talking about talent war, right?
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19 To get those people attracted to the company
00:28:19 --> 00:28:24 who have that sense for Yeah, being an influential,
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 impactful contributor and just seeing, you know,
00:28:28 --> 00:28:32 technology as an enabler and not as the cue to
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 everything. I love it because I think sometimes
00:28:34 --> 00:28:38 we use technology as a band -aid. Yeah. Thank
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41 you. Thank you so much for sharing. So last two
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 questions. What is the best career advice you've
00:28:44 --> 00:28:48 ever received? Encouragement was to hear like
00:28:48 --> 00:28:51 stay curious because I'm known to ask a lot of
00:28:51 --> 00:28:54 questions. And obviously, sometimes I was not
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57 sure if that's really accepted. So stay curious.
00:28:57 --> 00:29:01 And then combined with don't wait for perfect.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:06 Lean in and learn as you go. Because also in
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 my, you know, you and I are CFOs and sometimes
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 people may expect that we know it all. No, we
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13 don't always need to know everything upfront.
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 It's more important that we are courage enough
00:29:17 --> 00:29:22 to ask questions and stay open. what is the answer
00:29:22 --> 00:29:25 that's coming to you, right? Don't expect the
00:29:25 --> 00:29:28 answer you like to hear. Yeah, I think that that's
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 served me always very good to challenge also
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32 myself, right? When people give me an answer
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 and I'm like, that was not what I expected. So
00:29:35 --> 00:29:39 let's unpack that even more. Yes, love it. And
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 my last question, what's your favorite thing
00:29:41 --> 00:29:45 to do outside work? I'm cycling to clear my hands.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:50 I'm doing weightlifting to grout me. I like to
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 spend time with my husband in the evening. He's
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 the chef, I'm the sous chef. And I love that
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59 we have really great conversations over dinner
00:29:59 --> 00:30:04 as well. And then as a CFO, yes, I do also dance
00:30:04 --> 00:30:09 to EDM music. I like that. And obviously now
00:30:09 --> 00:30:13 it's just, you know, moving to beach sites. I
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 take my dogs and go for a walk and enjoy the
00:30:15 --> 00:30:20 breeze. And that's thing too. unwind and stay
00:30:20 --> 00:30:24 present. Yes. Yes. Wow. Thank you so much, Jenny.
00:30:24 --> 00:30:27 This was so, so helpful. So grateful to have
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 you on the show. Thanks for having me. And I
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 was really looking forward to it. Yeah. I also
00:30:32 --> 00:30:36 wish you all the best in your role. And I can't
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 wait to see all your successes being shared going
00:30:39 --> 00:30:44 forward. And that's it for today's episode of
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 The Diary of a CFO. Thank you so much for tuning
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 in. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 like, review, subscribe, and share with others.
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00:31:12 --> 00:31:14 if there is any topic you would like me to cover
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00:31:23 --> 00:31:24 .com. See you soon.
