Saying Yes Before You Feel Ready, with Janice Stucke

TRANSCRIPT

Wassia Kamon: Welcome back to the Diary of the CFO podcast, the space where you will find real world insight to become a better leader and be better at life. I'm your host, Waseeya Kamon, and today I'm so excited to have with me Janice Stucke. Janice is a CFO and foundation treasurer of KU Network and has an unconventional career path that is as established by her.

Inspiring as it is impressive. See, before getting into finance accounting, before having a CPA, Janice spent 10 years managing refugee programs around the globe. She came back to the state, wanted to transition into accounting, got a CPA, became director of finance, successfully led. Several digital transformations at both technology and not for profit organizations.

She stepped into the role of CFO for the first time and achieving the dream. And she recently completed Ironman. So Janice, you're a rock star. So glad to have you on the show.

Janice Stucke: Thank you. And I'm like, who are you talking about?

Wassia Kamon: It is, it is. Oh my goodness.

So why don't you start telling us about your journey to a CFO?

Such an unconventional path. What were some key steps that helped you get here?

Janice Stucke: I think Key Steps is believing in myself, you know, at the time I wouldn't have ever thought that I was my own biggest cheerleader. I felt like I have a dream and I just have to go for it and see if it works. It always seemed like a wild card.

But to go for the wild card, you really have to be betting on yourself. And I think that has really helped me in my career because times get tough. And ultimately I'm betting on myself and sometimes things work out. Sometimes they don't, but I'm the one that has to deal with it. The successes or consequences of that and I think that was first because when I went for that CPA like no one believed I could do it.

I kept hearing you haven't been an accountant. You don't know anything about accounting. It's an impossible test. There's no way you'll pass. Like people have accounting degrees and don't pass. People are in audit and don't pass. But I took that first exam and passed. If I had believed any of the naysayers, which was 98 percent of people, everyone minus my mother and like my best friend, like I wouldn't be here today, you know.

Um, I think that goes to betting on yourself and knowing, knowing your own, like what you can do and not, not needing that constant affirmation in order to keep moving. And I think that's, that's in anything it's hard to do. It's really hard to do.

I think also too, like, Just, you really have to be open. I think as we get older, you wanna get more rigid and more closed and you wanna do things that seem comfortable and failure.

Mm-hmm . Seems so much like a bigger risk, but like as we move in our career, we have to be more and more open, which means there's more possibility for failure, but more possibility for success. 'cause you and I both know we're doing stuff we never imagined we'd be doing and we have to. Yes. The way we, we never dream, we need to be an expert and.

You just have to constantly keep allowing that pivot and that change and not close off to it. And I think that just allows for success and failure, but it's hard to have that mental emotional fortitude.

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For me, especially with the way you, you were not always in finance accounting, you got in and became like a powerhouse, right? What do you think were some of the things that prepared you for that? Because what you were doing before on paper doesn't look like it was.

Any transferable skills, for example, or experience, but it actually helped you be where you are now. Can you share a little bit more about that?

Janice Stucke: So definitely coming from the refugee world, first I started off in legal and then I moved to managing refugee programs. And I think the best skill that I got out of that is leading teams from all over the world.

Really being able to talk to anyone and meet anyone wherever they are at that moment. I was working with people from every country you could imagine, leading programs in East Africa, in Southeast Asia, on the border of San Diego. So you really need to learn how to talk to anybody, how to communicate a message to anyone, no matter the language.

And it really forced me to focus on very clear communication skills. At the time I never would have imagined. I just thought like this is the job and I wanted to be culturally sensitive. But so much of leading is body language and facial expressions and just your energy and so much can be communicated without actual words.

And I think in accounting we never think about these things really. I mean there's no point that we really think about like What is the aura I'm bringing to the team? But when you're working with international teams, like that, a lot of communication is based on cultural understanding and how you present yourself to be.

And I think that's served me well moving into accounting and finance.

Wassia Kamon: Wow.

As a CFO, you have a team of people. So when you're looking to promote someone, what are some of the skills, experiences that you look for in hiring that person?

Janice Stucke: I think a lot of like hiring is based on someone's vision for themselves often when they have to have that vision too.

And just making sure. Mind and where they want to go. So I'm promoting or hiring. I want to make sure that I'm going to be working with someone that has that vision of leadership for themselves or of growth. I think sometimes women and people of color, like no one asked them, do you want to become CFO or do you want to be controller, do you want to be accounting manager?

So they just don't even envision that for themselves. So I like to ask my team, do you, do you want to be controller? Is that something that you could see and then give them time to think about that and cultivate possibly that vision for themselves. But even in hiring, like I want to fully understand what is that person's goal or vision, where are they going?

Because I'm definitely an innovative, let's go type person. And I want to work with people that kind of have that bigger vision and energy and growth mindset for themselves. Nice. So I always start with that and helping people get to that bigger vision of themselves. Secondly, I want to work with people that have problem solving skills, and I feel like that's a dying art.

So many people want to come to the manager or their supervisor and just express the problems, and I know I heard many times, don't, don't say the problems come with the solution. Like an annoying concept when I was going younger and hearing those things, but it really is true. And I think more than just coming up with the problem solving in the moment, it shows that you are a problem solving oriented person and you have those leadership skills.

And I think coming Forward at any level with solutions just shows that you're ready for those growth opportunities. And I want to work with someone that is able to to face day to day with problem solving. It doesn't need me to do all the thinking through and strategic thinking. And I think lastly, and accounting is, uh, communication.

I'm an extroverted person, so I like to communicate. I like to have meetings. I like to have check ins. I constantly take over teams that don't have team meetings because everybody just works in their silos, and everyone thinks that works well, and it never really does. So, I'm a weekly team meeting, constant check ins, constantly communicating with everyone on the team, not just my direct reports.

But I think communication and transparency are key, and I want someone that wants to communicate in kind. No, that's the way you build relationships and trust. And that's important to me. And I want to work with people that have that skill set or are willing to grow in that skill set. Someone that has that bigger vision for themselves, someone that can problem solve, and then someone that wants to communicate is kind of what I'll look for is the key factors.

I didn't say skillset because a lot of skills that can be taught, but you can't give someone a personality or leadership skills.

Wassia Kamon: Yes. And I like how everything you said here is all non finance non technical skills. Right. Because when we go through school, we feel like, Oh, I have to know about Excel and all these hard skills, the accounting guidance, but what you just said is so true.

It's really the other things that set you apart. Especially for these roles.

Janice Stucke: And a lot of times you join the accounting team, you're absorbing what they are currently doing. Maybe you can make it better, but your skill set may not be activated per se when you come into an accounting team because they kind of have their own process and procedure.

So you have to be willing to learn the current way and. And then improve it from there.

Wassia Kamon: Yes.

And then also when it comes to change, cause you have led so many digital transformation. I remember, I think it was one or two years when we met, you told me you were doing RPA and I was like, R what, what is RPA and all these things.

So what are your go to things that you do when you're trying to lead change? Like from whether you find a need, the software or how you get people on board, what are your go to moves?

Janice Stucke: So definitely coming in, like now I've been a crew for six months. So definitely coming in and learning the lay of the land is key.

Trying to be a good listener, understanding process. I think because I have a non traditional background and my undergrad was also in economics and statistics, like I have that unique skill set to see, I call it micro macro. So I can see the micro, so the day to day, the spreadsheets, the movement of data.

And start envisioning like how to make that macro. Macro being like the coming together, the financial statements, moving that into the budget. How are we going to forecast? How are we going to report to the board? Thinking through those data flows because it really is just a web of data. Now accounting is a web of data.

We're not doing ledgers, even Excel is flowing, you know. So for me, I want to make sure that flow of data is seamless. If you're on a spreadsheet and then you have to copy and paste it somewhere else, it's not seamless. I want a direct integration. I want AI or RPA to be able to read off the data. So I'm really excited about, RPA is amazing and I'm really excited about moving to AI because I want the data to flow from that initial bill, which is, has OCR and the, and the hard data goes in.

I want it to be able to flow seamlessly up to the financial statements, the budgets and forecasts where we're just checking for errors. We're not actually putting in data. And so my whole vision is how to have that seamless flow where we do have checks on what seamlessly flowing, but we're not manually inputting or doing any of those.

It's time consuming steps. I want like that natural progression.

Wassia Kamon: That's a dream right there. And then once you have that seamless transition, you get to have time to do all the things, but how do you get people on board? Right? Because I love the vision. I like how you say, I always start with. Wanting to have that seamless integration.

Not everybody has that vision. Not everybody, we may have time to implement whatever software or tools are needed to get there. How do you get them on board?

Janice Stucke: Well, I'm a little bit of a bulldog. Cause there's so much risk right now. And I, I tell everyone I want to sleep at night. There's so much fraud.

There's so much payables risk, so much risk with money, basically bad actors, solicit money, payroll fraud. I mean, just the risk is endless. So I think when we really understand, I just was at a cyber session. 80 percent of companies have been subjected to payables fraud, and of all the companies, which is a significant number that have dealt with ransomware or data that's been stolen, like the average payout on a business right now is 300, 000.

I tell the CEO, COO, CIO, like we can't afford to not integrate and have the increased security measures in order to prevent. the amount of fraud phishing schemes and all that's happening because an accounting system upgrade, depending on the size of the business, but a medium sized business, small business is going to be less than 300, 000.

When the average payout is 300, 000. When you look at numbers, the math is mapping in that. Trying to prevent and, and you might say directly, I don't see how accounting system change is going to prevent fraud, but you have that immediate, you can put in approval control chains. You can have that direct view daily of what the detailed transactions and the accounts, just having that greater visibility and transparency,

Wassia Kamon: we

Janice Stucke: just saw Macy's had an accountant being 154 million and wrong entries.

You have to have someone. to be checking an R. P. A. You need to constantly have this approval chain and checking for outlier data and you need higher level systems that integrate to be able to do that. And that's always my vision, like how to manage the risk of the business. With better technology that being said, the problem solving measure, I can have the vision.

I can do the integration. I can train the staff. The challenges is the staff, like, wanting to learn and wanting to grow with that vision as well. And I feel like that's the challenge accounting teams are facing now. 1 person has the vision and 1 person is driving that, but then you need the whole team to embrace it.

Yes. Studies show that companies are bringing on more and more technology, but 80 percent of implementations fail because the entire team and how it flows throughout the entire company is not embraced. And I feel like that's now the second phase. Like everyone is on board with more technology, faster financial close, more risk management, like prevention of fraud.

The next level of focus is going to be like pushing that technology down from the top to the very bottom. So everyone fully understands and embraces that in their day to day life to really get that ROI and the full effect of these technologies we're bringing on. I know I don't have all the answers on that, but it's definitely a journey we're all on and I'm constantly thinking through.

Wassia Kamon: And I particularly like how you said it's 300K to maybe upgrade a system, but it's 300K for one. Instance of if it happens, right? So yes, the math is nothing but getting people on board is what I'm finding to be to be difficult. And going back to what you said earlier, when you hire people that want that grow.

Right.

It's likely to have them on board is likely to be able to drive the changes you, you want to do now you mentioned something about AI needs to be taking RPA and some people may not be familiar with RP or AI or how the two can integrate. Can you give us a little lecture here?

Janice Stucke: So a little lecture is the world of bots.

I'm not the world's genius tech person, but you know, whether it's AI, a bot, or just setting up like a macros, you basically program macros is the basic Excel, but now it's so advanced. I mean, it's just this programming of what are the steps in my human logic that I take to check something or to, you know, reconcile a credit card statement, every, everything has nuance.

So it's basically building that special nuance. So the bot, the macros, the AI can follow that nuance logic and be able to finalize that flow of logic, but also problem solving that flow of logic and macros was like, very exact. You do 1 step 1 through 10. It can't deviate from that. RPA is able to deviate slightly.

AI can do one through 10 and hopefully have more opportunities to problem solve and correct. So there's different advanced levels to being able to walk through data flow. And we all know in accounting, like the out of the box systems can never complete 100 percent of the work.

Wassia Kamon: Yes.

Janice Stucke: There's always the data from the past doesn't match the data current and we have to change the old data or we added in an entity that doesn't flow.

It's so much of that, that nuance type, which is where. The real time comes in and when you can have a bot or a I like be able to handle that nuance and not checking. That's where you really save time. And I think that's where a I can only build off the data we have as a current where I mean. Unless you're at a huge company where you have people building large language models that can really take the old data, transform, you know, I mean, a lot of steps, most of us are just in the kind of out of the box options, but it's like the ability to take the data we have and be able to fact check it and be able to change it based on very specific rules.

I think that's where the time savings are right now.

Wassia Kamon: And what's impressive with you is that you implemented like RPA at smaller organizations, right? Like we, we tend to think that, Oh, this is only a luxury for organization of a certain size, but you brought this type of integration down to where you were with limited resources.

Can you please share about what that journey was? Cause I remember you were like, I don't have a lot, I haven't have a life for like how many months when you were in the trenches.

Janice Stucke: So yeah, it started at SHRM and we brought RPA and many people didn't believe they thought it was going to replace their job.

They didn't believe it was going to help them. They didn't see the value and taking the time it takes. So you have to map out like each decision making process. So the first RPA I built was the role at SHRM I had that they wanted to save money and not rehire for, but mostly I was building dashboards and reports.

So I built an RPA to build those dashboards and reports. In my absence, the RPA can't grow as the data grows, like someone has to go in and, you know, make those constant changes, but imagine my entire full time role was. A bot was doing that. So me going from full time to a bot and even like a human, like the dashboard comes out and then, you know, they, someone needs to go in and make changes and adjustments, but what are we talking about possibly 10 hours a month and adjustments and changes as opposed to 40 hours a week, that's the power of RPA macros AI, and we're always going to need someone to check the data and to help it flow through, but like just speeding it up, really.

really helps everyone in every direction.

Wassia Kamon: Wow, I, I'm so impressed at the kind of stuff you know, right? Because you are, you are managing a refugee program, you are CPA, now you fall into digital building bots, okay? How do you navigate all that?

How do you keep yourself updated, engaged, like alive? 'cause you also did the Ironman, by the way,

Janice Stucke: Minor detail.

Yes. I'm like someone that really likes to learn and grow and I don't shy away from growth opportunities. Sometimes I'm growing too much in too many directions, but I remind myself and I say this on repeat, I have right next to my bed, your comfort zone will kill you. So I wake up and I see that poster, your comfort zone will kill you.

And sometimes I'm like, That poster, like I want to sleep in, I want to like just have a slow day, but I didn't even know what that means anymore. Like every day, every day is growth opportunities right now. I'm very heavily involved in our website transformation and adjusting the shopping cart and global payments.

And how that flows through to our new accounting systems and having the integrations, be able to do matching and reconciliation between the website, credit card processing and the accounting system. And I don't know how to do that perfectly, but every day I'm focused on the vision on how to think through and problem solve things I've never done before.

So I have to constantly be open to that and that, that takes, I feel like you have to constantly have that bandwidth. Like for me, I need to do a lot of self care, self care. Don't know where that accent came from. A lot of self care to be able to have that open space to constantly do new things. And also to be able to train.

Having started a new job and I was very clear when I was starting the job that I was training for an Ironman and I still wanted to pursue that and My C. E. O. Gave me that support even in hiring me and encouraged me to still go for that. But the amount of bandwidth I needed to have to be able to train and lean into new skill sets, it's a lot of self, a lot of mental self care to constantly have that open space.

to be pivoting into new areas at all time and not collapsing. You just have to constantly keep having that open mental space and that willingness to lean in and keep going. When it was my first Ironman and new to the job, like everything is new. And that takes a lot of energy and a lot of mental space to be able to lean into new every day, all day.

So,

Wassia Kamon: yes, I mean, so impressive. I remember I told my 10 year old, Hey, Ms. Jen is just finished at Ironman. And she was like, what is that? I'm like, well, she was biking, swimming, running for like, Almost 15 hours. And my daughter was like, Oh, it's she's alive. Didn't know if it was her mommy right here, she would be dead on the side of the road somewhere.

So, so impressive though. And also reminds us of.

The future of finance when it comes to CFO would be right. So you have the communication skills, you have the accounting skills, finance, and then it on top. What are some of the things you can tell the younger generation, the new generation of leaders, what should they do?

I mean, it's almost sometimes still overwhelming when you look at it, you're like, Oh, I'm going to be that I'm not trying to do an Ironman, but in terms of at least the CFO role, how can they prepare?

Janice Stucke: I think as much as Ironman and triathlon and traveling and I speak Japanese, it's just leaning into this constant growth mindset.

Like I think the days of going to work and doing the same job every day, those don't exist anymore. Things are changing too quickly. And I think a lot of the, a lot of women I know get to higher level roles and they're like, it's too much. It's just taking too much out of me. Like I can't handle this on top of family life and whatever else is going on for them.

And I think changing that mindset, you and I both know it's always going to be too much, but you just have to constantly self care and. Have that network around you to help propping you up to keep going. And I think you and I together, I have an amazing triathlon group. I have an amazing finance group. I have amazing family and friends.

I have so many spaces in my life, uh, both men and women, but these days very heavily, I call the sisterhood who's hearing me on, listening to me, supporting me, and without that, I would give up because. the day to day and all the change would just deplete me too much. But I think it's very well to have have that support group constantly cheering you on and leaning into them for help, help, support and encouragement and new thought leadership.

And just as you and I were discussing, like, what do you think I should do here that Those trusted advisors, as much as I lean into the sisterhood, I have an amazing group of consultants I work with, and they're mostly men because a lot of the people that are in the various fields, but they're as invested in my successes.

As I am invested in my success. So it's also as much as I have the support group, I have consultants that I can hire that bring that thought leadership and are invested in my success. And I think that's been pivotal to my growth. Having people I can pay that I know when I hire them, they're going to make sure I succeed.

That has been a saving grace. When times get hard, I can pay someone to assist. And I know the job will get done and that's been hugely helpful and I'm leaning into that right now with all the IT projects I'm in. And that's keeping me sane because I have to trust them and know they're going to take care of me when I don't have the answers.

And so far it's worked and I will continue to lean into the great unknown with their support. And I think building that network of people you can trust is so key.

Wassia Kamon: Yes. Oh my God. I love it. I love that balance. True. Some, somebody will be free. Maybe I should start charging you and some will have to pay because it's more work related.

But at the end of the day, it takes a village so you can't just grow in a silo, right? Oh my God.

Thank you so much. Janice for being on the show. Thank you so much for sharing all these great insight. Thank you for being an inspiration to so many women in finance as well.

Janice Stucke: Thank you. And I'm always glad to see you.

I'll see ya.

Wassia Kamon: That's it for today's episode of the diary of the CFO. I hope you enjoyed it. If you have any. Topic you would like me to cover in the future. Please send it to ask at the diary of the CFO. com. Again, send an email to ask at the diary of the CFO. com. If you connect on LinkedIn, you can just send me a DM.

The reason I need it is because I want to make sure I bring you the insight. You need to be a better leader and be better at life. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to leave a review, subscribe and share it. And I'll see you next in another episode of the Diary of a CFO. Cheers.