In this episode of the Diary of a CFO podcast, Edwine Alphonse shares her journey from a work-study student in Canada to a senior controller at Ramp, discussing her experiences in startups, the importance of accounting, and how to build a high-performing finance team. She emphasizes the critical role of accounting in business operations and the necessity for finance leaders to advocate for adequate technology for their teams.
00:00:03 --> 00:00:06 Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast, the
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 podcast where finance leaders share lessons,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 challenges, and wins that shape their careers
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 as well as their organizations. Today, I'm so
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 delighted to have with me Edwine Alphonse. Edwin
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 is a financial executive with 20 years of experience
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 in fintech, digital currencies, and technology.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 She specializes in startup accounting, IFRS,
00:00:26 --> 00:00:29 and US GAAP, leading financial strategy, M &A,
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 and corporate integration. As currently the senior
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 controller at Rem, she scaled financial operations
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 during hyper growth. Previously, she established
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 digital currency accounting centers as Circle,
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 a CP in Canada and in the U .S. Edwine advises
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 startups and serves on boards and champions financial
00:00:48 --> 00:00:52 education and entrepreneurship. Welcome, Edwin.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 Thank you, Asiya. Thanks for having me. I'm excited
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 to be part of your podcast today. Thank you.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 Thank you. Why don't we just start with your
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 journey I know you're a CPA in both countries,
00:01:03 --> 00:01:06 which people don't realize how much work it is.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08 But what else, what else brought you to where
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 you are now in your current role? So this is
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13 interesting. I studied my career in Canada, like
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 you said. I'm from Haiti originally, but my parents
00:01:16 --> 00:01:19 moved to Canada when I was like close to like
00:01:19 --> 00:01:23 college age. And I went to the University of
00:01:23 --> 00:01:27 Ottawa. And for my first time on campus, I was
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 extremely attracted into a career in accounting.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 At school, I joined the work -study program.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 And as a student in the work -study program,
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 I was able to work in the accounting department
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 at the university, which was a privilege because
00:01:41 --> 00:01:44 not everyone gets to see the behind of the scene
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 of the university. So I was in the accounting
00:01:47 --> 00:01:51 department and I was able to work with auditors.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 At that time, Deloitte was the auditor of the
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 university. And working with Deloitte and helping
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 them get invoices in the attic of the university,
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 I developed a passion for auditing and accounting.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 This is how my journey in accounting started.
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 I joined EY right after university and worked
00:02:10 --> 00:02:15 for EY in Toronto, in Ottawa, and finally in
00:02:15 --> 00:02:18 Grand Cayman. After five years at EY, I moved
00:02:18 --> 00:02:23 to the US in Boston in 2011 and joined PwC. Three
00:02:23 --> 00:02:27 years at PwC, I joined my first startup and that
00:02:27 --> 00:02:31 was Circle. At that time, nobody knew about bitcoins
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 or cryptocurrency. And it was a big risk. I remember
00:02:34 --> 00:02:37 people telling me, why are you doing this? Are
00:02:37 --> 00:02:41 you crazy? And that was OK, because I like challenges.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44 And I was interested in learning more about cryptocurrencies.
00:02:45 --> 00:02:49 I was employee number 40 and the first accountant.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 So my first job was to get the first audit done.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 And it was challenging because nobody wanted
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 to be the auditor of a cryptocurrency company
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 at that time. Oh, wow. I didn't even think about
00:03:01 --> 00:03:05 that. How did you navigate just that part? Well,
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 interestingly, we found like a small firm in
00:03:08 --> 00:03:12 California that was brave enough to take us as
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 a client. And for me, it was a journey because,
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 you know, when you're an auditor, you don't really
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20 know like accounting and how to set up accounting
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 systems and processes. in a real company. As
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 an auditor, all you do is review the work of
00:03:26 --> 00:03:30 other people. So I was able to learn and navigate
00:03:30 --> 00:03:35 the process of setting up accounting in a really,
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38 really risky company. So I did it, worked at
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 Circle for five years, built a team. And when
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 I say team, like we had people in the US, we
00:03:44 --> 00:03:48 had people in UK, in Ireland, in Hong Kong. So
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 I was able to work with IFRS standards as well.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 Because Serco at that time was an Irish entity,
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 like the parent was an Irish entity. And then
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 after Serco, I joined two other startups in a
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 similar role, where I was able to help build
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 a team, build processes. And then finally, four
00:04:04 --> 00:04:08 years ago, I joined Rep. And Rep, the first accountant,
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 built the team, built the processes. That's impressive
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 because I saw ramp we saw you guys in the Super
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18 Bowl So if you were there four years ago, like
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 how big was the team? How big is the team now
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 in the organizations? Like what are some of the
00:04:23 --> 00:04:28 things that helped you? scale with ramp So I
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 think I was privileged enough to work in a company
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 that is focused on helping accountant with finance
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 automation So this is a great environment for
00:04:37 --> 00:04:41 me because I'm working a company whose mission
00:04:41 --> 00:04:45 is to help accountants like me. So I use Ramp
00:04:45 --> 00:04:50 to do work. I use Ramp to process invoices. I
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 use Ramp for bill pay. So from the get -go, it
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 was the perfect environment to build a team.
00:04:55 --> 00:04:59 So when I joined in 2021, we had a team of 71
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 people. That was the head count in the company.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:06 Right now, we have about 1 employees. And
00:05:06 --> 00:05:08 being the first in accounting was great because
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 I was able to set up the processes, work on the
00:05:11 --> 00:05:16 controls, and also establish the primary foundation
00:05:16 --> 00:05:20 of accounting and finance. So right now, my accounting
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23 team is, we have a team of eight, but we get
00:05:23 --> 00:05:27 a lot done. With 1 employees, wow, wow.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:29 And what would you say are some of the things
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 that helped you scale, right? Because if you
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 were the first accountant, there is no roadmap.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 You're probably taking something maybe that was
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40 handled by a bookkeeper before, and you're trying
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 to bring it in -house, and building procedures,
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 you're hiring people, you're helping them grow.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 Like, can you speak more about, like, that whole
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 experience? It is something to think about, because
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 you need to have a word map. And for me, my word
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 map, and I would say my north star, is daily
00:05:58 --> 00:06:00 clothes. I dream about just, like, pressing a
00:06:00 --> 00:06:04 button and closing the book. I dream about the
00:06:04 --> 00:06:08 tomations. So that's my north star. And accounting
00:06:08 --> 00:06:12 as a function, we have three goals as accountants.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 The first one is to keep the lights on. People
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 don't think about accounting like that, but all
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 the functions that we do, like AP, AR, payroll,
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 compliance, auditing, like our first mission
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 is to keep the lights on. And we do that by safeguarding
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31 the assets of the company. By asset, I mean like
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 people, number one asset. If they don't get paid,
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 they don't show up to work. They're not satisfied.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:41 So that's to payroll, vendors, customers. Those
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43 are relationships that are important for the
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 company. If the vendors don't get paid, they
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 don't provide services. They don't provide like
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 hardware. There's no leases. There's no place
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 for employees to congregate and work. So that's
00:06:54 --> 00:06:57 to AP. So you need to have like strong AP, strong
00:06:57 --> 00:07:01 payroll. And the last one is compliance. As an
00:07:01 --> 00:07:05 institution, as a corporation, the company and
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 all the other entities under the company, the
00:07:07 --> 00:07:12 subsidiaries, they have tax compliance that need
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 to be met. Because the IRS needs its money. The
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 state needs its money. If you have like lenders,
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 they want to make sure that they're not lending
00:07:21 --> 00:07:25 their money to some crazy management thing. So
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 they want financial statement. And investors,
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 who give money to the company, they want to make
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 sure that their money is properly used. As an
00:07:35 --> 00:07:38 accounting leader, my role is to make sure that
00:07:38 --> 00:07:42 I take care of all of the stakeholders' needs.
00:07:42 --> 00:07:46 And mostly, the executives need information.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 So with accounting, you provide information.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:53 So let me say it again. First one, keep the lights
00:07:53 --> 00:07:58 on. Otherwise, the company doesn't survive. Second,
00:07:58 --> 00:08:03 safeguard the assets. People, processes, tools,
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 money, the money you receive for your fundraising.
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 And third, give information. Always go back to
00:08:10 --> 00:08:15 these three missions or goals. And I build my
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 team to always remember that they are important
00:08:19 --> 00:08:23 in the organization. And this brings me to like,
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 how do you build a team? And these people are
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 important. So being the first one, and I've been
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 the first one in many situations that circle
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 at Trump, like I always make sure first I understand
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 what's going on. I know how the processes work.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 I've done the work. Like I've done payroll, I've
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 done AP, I've done bank reconciliation, even
00:08:43 --> 00:08:47 do the lowest renewal task. So when I have a
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 team member joining, I can coach them. I know
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 what they're doing. So that was my first responsibility,
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 learn. so I can teach to others. The type of
00:08:57 --> 00:09:01 people that I usually like to hire are people
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 that have full ownership of the work that they
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 do. Like each one of my team member is a key
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 member of the organization. Even if you're like
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 an AP specialist, you pay bills. This is a key
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 wall, because if the bills are not paid, the
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 vendors are not happy. So I look for people that
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 take pride in their work and that have a sense
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 of ownership and accountability. Second, I want
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 someone that can work independently. I work remotely,
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 and my team is pretty much remote. So I always
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 tell them, I don't have time to babysit anyone.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:37 No micromanagement. No micromanagement. So I
00:09:37 --> 00:09:41 need to trust you. And trust means being transparent.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 It also means that knowing that even though you
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 might be in California, I'm in Boston, we have
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 a different time zone, you get the work done.
00:09:51 --> 00:09:56 I don't care. where my team member live. I don't
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 care when the work gets done. It just need to
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 get done by a certain timeline. And we talk about
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 it. And I think one of the challenges of working
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 remotely is you don't know what's going on in
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 people's life. You don't know what their energy
00:10:09 --> 00:10:15 is. So I take it upon myself to be as close to
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 them as possible. And I take the lead to share
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 as much as I can about my personal life, what
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 I'm going through. Because you need to establish
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 this bond with your remote team. You need to
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 build that trust. And third is like coaching
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31 and mentoring. Like you might give people responsibility.
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 You might put them in the ownership position
00:10:34 --> 00:10:39 and accountability position. You might not manage
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 them, but you need to lead them as well. And
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 when we go to the hiring process, like we have
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 like, I have a really extremely fully strong
00:10:48 --> 00:10:52 hiring process. How I do it is I like to ask
00:10:52 --> 00:10:56 questions, like personal questions. I'll ask,
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 I want to know also for where my employees are.
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 But what's important is knowing how you can learn
00:11:02 --> 00:11:06 from mistakes of the past. So one of my question
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 is like, is there anything you would do differently
00:11:08 --> 00:11:12 in your career or in your personal life? And
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 you'll be surprised the people that tell me nothing.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:21 Usually, they don't get the job usually, because
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 I always feel like there's always a lesson to
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 learn. So they haven't learned that lesson in
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 20 years or 30 years. Part of the hiring, they
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 do a technical case as well. And usually, in
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 the case, there's always some kind of trick.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 Now I want to see the test afterwards. Email
00:11:40 --> 00:11:44 me. Usually, because I would put an error in
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 the question. Just to see who's going to find
00:11:47 --> 00:11:51 my error. Like if you applied for an AP position,
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 there will be like a situation where the company
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 is running out of money. And as an AP person,
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 you need to be like, oh my God, like I don't
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 have money to pay my bills. What's going on?
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 So that kind of like test your cash management
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 skills. Like if you're working as an accounting
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 manager, usually I put a little trick like there's
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 an error in one of the entry and the candidate
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 that usually find my errors. they usually score
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 high. And part of the process as well, we do
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 have a panel interview because most of our employees,
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 they work with different team members, different
00:12:24 --> 00:12:28 departments. So they need to be able to work
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 with cross partnership teams. They need to be
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 able to communicate well. They need to be able
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 to be assertive. So through interaction with
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 the panel, we can assess the skills as well.
00:12:39 --> 00:12:43 Wow, I love your hiring process because you really
00:12:43 --> 00:12:47 just outline the true foundation of a high -performing
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 accounting team, right? Because you want somebody
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 who not just understand and can problem solve
00:12:52 --> 00:12:55 on their own, but they also have to be great
00:12:55 --> 00:12:56 business partner because at the end of the day,
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 like you said earlier, as an accountant, there
00:12:59 --> 00:13:03 is so much that you carry. And we often don't
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 understand the importance of accounting in the
00:13:06 --> 00:13:10 office of the CFO. It's so important. You need
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 good data, good accounting to do good FP &A and
00:13:13 --> 00:13:15 everything else. Can you speak a bit more to
00:13:15 --> 00:13:18 this? Well, I think accounting is the foundation
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 of everything. You need to have good numbers
00:13:21 --> 00:13:25 in order to do good projection, in order to start
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 a good strategy like an operating model. So if
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 you don't have good accounting, you cannot have
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 any. And usually accountants are behind the scenes
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 and they think about like the past, like when
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 you look at the financial statement. That financial
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 statement is a presentation of the past. Like
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44 right now, for example, we're working on 2024
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 audits. My auditors, all they care about is 12
00:13:47 --> 00:13:53 -21 -24. Yes, same boat. Like, why do you have
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 a 12 -21 -24? What did you have in the bank?
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 What did you have as liabilities? What did you
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 have as equity? And they ask a lot of questions,
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 requests, reconciliation, and all of this. That's
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 all they care about, like, as auditors. And as
00:14:07 --> 00:14:10 accountants, like, we're going to close in the
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 book for the month of February. But February's
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 already gone. But you need that information.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19 Like, you just said it. We run that campaign
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 for the Super Bowl second. We spent a lot of
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 money. So I need to report, how much money did
00:14:24 --> 00:14:28 we spend? And what was the impact of that expenditure
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 on our sales numbers, on our go -to -market strategy?
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 Because that was a big branding investment. What
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 is the result of that? Guess who has the numbers?
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 My team has the numbers, accounting has the numbers.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 And with that number, this is what the go -to
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 -market team, the revenue operations team, this
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 is what they're going to use to make prediction
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 about the future. This is what the executive
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 are going to use to make sure that their investment
00:14:54 --> 00:14:58 in that marketing campaign bring friction. Like
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 they want to make sure that whatever they spend,
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 they're going to get it in 10 times, 20 times
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 of time. and why are they using for that is accounting.
00:15:08 --> 00:15:10 First of all, the accounting team had to make
00:15:10 --> 00:15:15 the payment. Must have been a big check. I remember
00:15:15 --> 00:15:20 my team, that was the day of CKO. We had a big
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 company -wide event, and nobody had their computer.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 I was like, okay, I'm going to go with my laptop,
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 and we had to process the payment really quickly.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30 So we were keen in processing the payment to
00:15:30 --> 00:15:34 AP, which is an accounting functions. And then,
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 Like reporting it, we had to report it, categorize
00:15:37 --> 00:15:41 it in the right GL, talk to the different marketing
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 teams, sales people, and everything, and report
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 on it. So we'd be like, okay, this is how much
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 we've spent. And now to the revenue numbers that
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 are going to come, we'll be like, oh, we spent
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 that much? This is how much we got. So that's
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 accounting here. So you need that foundation.
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 If you don't have that foundation, nothing is
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 solid. Like finance cannot stay, like the operating
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04 model, what numbers are used. The go -to -market
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 strategy is what numbers are used. So I think
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 accounting team, like a good accounting team,
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 is building financial history. Like we are historian.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 We're like financial storyteller. And if nobody's
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 hearing that story, if nobody's paying attention
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 to the fact, you're not learning for the future,
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 and you're not going well for the future. So
00:16:24 --> 00:16:27 that's why I always feel like accounting is extremely
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 important to an organization. And then when you
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 look like more, like I work for startups. But
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 all of the startups, they do have an exit plan
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 at some point. Either they get brought up, either
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 they go to an IPO. But at that point, what do
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 investors look at? They look at financial statement.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 Because this financial statement tells them a
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 story about the company, like a number story.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 I like to call it number story. But that number
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 story is why people are investing. It's why people
00:16:57 --> 00:17:01 are not investing or making decisions. And that's
00:17:01 --> 00:17:05 why accounting is extremely important. Absolutely.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:10 And I love how you said it because we often don't
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 realize how important it is. And I think part
00:17:12 --> 00:17:16 of it is because we've seen accounting team and
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 accounting system not set up right from the start.
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 So the accounting team is often trying to catch
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 up. Maybe the chart of account was not designed
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 the right way to start with. And now it's a problem
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 with the rest of the management team. Maybe the
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 accounting system was not set up the right way,
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 and then it's a problem with the right team.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 So since you had that experience building, being
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 the one that built from scratch, how would you
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 say are some of the things people should consider
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 when they... build that initial chart of account,
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 when they build that initial process so that
00:17:48 --> 00:17:52 you can build to scale and not just have something
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 that works maybe for the first one, two years
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 of a company, but can work, like you said, for
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 all these years to now, you're on the Superbowl,
00:17:59 --> 00:18:02 if I can say at Ramp, for example. So that's
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 extremely important. And like you said, the chart
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09 of account is the map. If you don't have a good
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 chart of accounts, you pretty much could. And
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 usually when I join a company, the first thing
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16 I do is I do a big cleanup of the shut off account.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 And my cleanups start from day zero, not day
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 one, because day one is usually like when the
00:18:22 --> 00:18:24 company receive money, when the company is formed.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 But day zero is like, what is the intention of
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 that company? Why are they like starting this
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 company? And you need to build that shut off
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 account based on the goal and intention of the
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 company. And when you study in a short of account,
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 like usually, like when I come, people are usually
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 in Quickbook. They don't even have account numbers.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 And I'm like, Oh my God, I cannot live without
00:18:46 --> 00:18:50 account numbers. There's no 1000. So the first
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 thing to do is to like, go back, look at the
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 short of accounts, think about what is the business
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 of the company? What do they want to do in the
00:18:59 --> 00:19:03 long run in three, four, five years and map the
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 business across the short of accounts. I'd say
00:19:06 --> 00:19:10 like you're going to have different type of revenues.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13 Usually revenues start with four, like 4
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 or something like that, or 40 . So how many
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18 revenue line are you going to have? How many
00:19:18 --> 00:19:21 revenue categories are you going to have? So
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 you start there. You start thinking about cugs.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 What is cugs? Like gap, US gap is extremely,
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30 give you a lot of latitude for cugs. As soon
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 as like you, like if you remain consistent. You
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 can put a lot in COGS or you can put less depending
00:19:35 --> 00:19:39 on the goals of the company. So you need to design,
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 what am I going to have in COGS? And what is
00:19:42 --> 00:19:46 that map showing to my investors? Because if
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 you have an inflated COGS, that's when your gross
00:19:48 --> 00:19:51 margin, your CP is not going to look good. So
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 you need to understand what are your investors,
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 what are your executives looking for? So that's
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 why the short of account is extremely important
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 and you need to design it in partnership. with
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 your executive, thinking about what the investors
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 are going to want long -term. So after designing
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 that P &L, like I usually do like, okay, revenue,
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 what type of revenue, what's different revenue
00:20:13 --> 00:20:17 line, COGS, what do you have there, like OPEX,
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 like are you going, if you're a SaaS company,
00:20:19 --> 00:20:23 you have three big departments, R &D, G &A, sales
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 and marketing, and then you might have other
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 like other revenues that build the line. So I
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 take a detailed approach on the P &L because
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 the P &L tells the story of what's going on during
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 a period in the company. And after you go back
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38 to the balance sheet, then you're like, okay,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 what type of asset do I have? What type of liability
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 do I have? And people always forget that, but
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 equity is the most important. It's funny because
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 I remember when I was at the big four, nobody
00:20:50 --> 00:20:55 ever taught me to audit or like account for equity.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:59 So I have to learn the hard way and knowing like
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 the different type of equity because this is
00:21:02 --> 00:21:03 what's funny in the company and this is where
00:21:03 --> 00:21:07 the owners accumulate wealth in the company or
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 they accumulate losses as well. So you need to
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 understand equity accounting. That's first. And
00:21:13 --> 00:21:18 then second, as you are building the accounting
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 for a company, once you have that sort of account,
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 what kind of tools do you have? Because you don't
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 want your team to spend time like doing like
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 silly work. I call that silly work. If a software
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 can do the work, your team shouldn't do it. So
00:21:32 --> 00:21:36 I lobby a lot and I invest a lot in the right
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 software so my team doesn't have to do silly
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 work. Like at Ramp, for example, we use Ramp
00:21:41 --> 00:21:45 at Ramp for AP, for expense reporting. I don't
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 have to go chase people for the expense reports.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 And I can tell you, I've done that for like five,
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 six years. had various company before that. RIMP
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 is pretty cool. That's what we use at ACE. We
00:21:57 --> 00:22:01 use RIMP. So it does, it does remind you of what's
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 going on and then he locks you out if you didn't
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 submit your receipt. So I, my AP associate love
00:22:07 --> 00:22:12 it. They're like, yes, for RIMP. Same thing for
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 me too. Like I don't have to be chasing people.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 I can just create quick controls from the get
00:22:16 --> 00:22:20 go. So using the right tools is important. when
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 I started wearing Quickbook. I was like, okay,
00:22:23 --> 00:22:24 maybe Quickbook is not the right way to scale.
00:22:25 --> 00:22:29 So we went for a bigger software. Same thing
00:22:29 --> 00:22:32 too, we adopted some closed software. We were
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 going to do subscription. Like we implemented,
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 like I implemented like a sales tax software.
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 The sales tax, oh my God, government, if they
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 want to come after you for sales tax, they will
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 come after you. So you need to make sure you're
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 compliant from the get go. Like for example,
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 we just implemented like a financial statement
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 preparation software. Because I don't want my
00:22:53 --> 00:22:55 team to be doing silly work. And that work can
00:22:55 --> 00:23:00 be done by software or by AI. So right now, my
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 team, like, we're thinking about how we can implement
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 AI agent into a monthly closed process or into
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 a regular process as well. Because if the tools
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 exist, why are people spending time doing it?
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 I have a really, really lean team for a big organization
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 that's going really fast. And most of the time
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 we are, like I'll say a little bit overwhelmed
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 because there's a lot of work. Especially in
00:23:23 --> 00:23:24 our sense, we're like in business season with
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 the audits going on. Like we need to prioritize
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 what type of work that we're doing. That's why
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 it's important to have the right tools. And lastly,
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 like the right processes. Oh, wow. That's the
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 cherry on the cake. Because sometimes, like you
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 said, you have the right tools. You did all your
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44 work as a leader. You lobbied. You got the approval.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 You got the software. And then you don't implement
00:23:47 --> 00:23:51 right. Exactly. And I would say this is the most
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 challenging thing. Because you might have the
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 whole nice process on paper with the right controls,
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 with the right owners, and everything. And it's
00:24:00 --> 00:24:05 still not working. Yes. So having the right processes
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 is extremely important. And I'm not going to
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 say I have all the right processes. We're still
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 in building mode. We're still in improvement
00:24:12 --> 00:24:17 mode. But your key processes need to be great.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:21 And what are the key processes? Like AP, which
00:24:21 --> 00:24:24 is like procure to pay process. AR, your revenue
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 process, which is like order to cash. Paywall,
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 like those are the key processes. They need to
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 work really well. And after, you can work on
00:24:32 --> 00:24:36 the other one, like tax, like capitalization,
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 and all of this. In addition to that, your closed
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 process. That's a process that's always a working
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 process, because you're always improving it.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 But you need to remember to go back to the board
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 and work on your key process. And people don't
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 think about that as well. Like, these processes,
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 they don't change. You have them across all organizations.
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 But in the canvas of that, there is the organizational
00:24:58 --> 00:25:02 process of doing, like, improving the processes,
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 automating them, creating the infrastructure.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 I would call that the backbone of accounting.
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 And that's why accountants, like strategic accounting
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 is extremely important. Like I know accounting
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 can be extremely like transactional, but you
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 need to also have a strategic accounting mindset,
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 which allows you to scale. And by that, I'm like,
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 okay, new product, what is our process for new
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 product? So that's another process that you have
00:25:32 --> 00:25:36 to think about. Building the tools, what is the
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 process to build the tool? Like change management,
00:25:38 --> 00:25:42 what is the process for that? I would like a
00:25:42 --> 00:25:43 world where, as accountants, we have time to
00:25:43 --> 00:25:48 do all of this. Yes. But most of the time, we
00:25:48 --> 00:25:51 just have to prioritize and do what's mostly
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54 important, like what's more important. Of course.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 But then going back to getting away from silly
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 work. So with a lean team, like you said, working
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 at a startup, you probably have a lean team,
00:26:04 --> 00:26:05 you building as you go, you learning as you go,
00:26:05 --> 00:26:08 that's a lot of stretching too. But how do you
00:26:08 --> 00:26:11 advocate for the technology to go with it? Because
00:26:11 --> 00:26:14 I feel like sometimes we don't always have the
00:26:14 --> 00:26:18 right either negotiation skills or the foresight
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 to say, okay, because I know this is where we're
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 going, these are the investment I need to make
00:26:22 --> 00:26:26 now with my team. How do you go about making
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 sure that you stay ahead, that the management
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30 team knows that they need to make those investment
00:26:30 --> 00:26:33 in the accounting and finance team? This is such
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 a good question because as an accountant, we
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 don't think outside the box. We usually like
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 deliver the cards that we're given and we usually
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 make the best of it. But is the best the best?
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 That's the question I keep asking myself. Like
00:26:47 --> 00:26:49 I always ask myself, like, is the best the best?
00:26:49 --> 00:26:52 So to advocate, you need to know that knowledge.
00:26:53 --> 00:26:56 And right now we are in a really good period
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 where there's a lot of tools, there's a lot of
00:26:59 --> 00:27:02 software, there's a lot of company building for
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 accountants or for office of the CF, what they
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 call them, like office of the CF rules. So as
00:27:07 --> 00:27:11 an accounting leader, it is your responsibility
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 to know about these new tools that are being
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 developed for accountants. Because if you don't
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 know about them, you cannot introduce them to
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 your team, you cannot advocate for them. So for
00:27:21 --> 00:27:25 me, I spend a lot of time with founders. When
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 I say I spend time with them, I'm always curious.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 If I see something new, I will connect with the
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 founder and request a demo. Because even if I
00:27:33 --> 00:27:36 don't use the tool, or even if I have no intention
00:27:36 --> 00:27:39 of ever using it, this is a tool I can learn
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 from. I can recommend it to my friends that might
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 use it. Or I can give some idea to my team about
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 how to do better work with the mindset of the
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 tool. And if I don't use it now, maybe I'll use
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 it in two, three years. You never know. So I
00:27:53 --> 00:27:58 spend a lot of time staying up to date with new
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01 technology, new tools, startup that are being
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 developed. Because I feel like if you don't do
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 that, you're missing out. So that's one, just
00:28:06 --> 00:28:10 being knowledgeable. And two, how do you convince
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 your leadership? Once you find the right tool,
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 how do you convince your leadership? Because
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17 think about it, we're just a cost center. People
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19 see us like... costing most of the time. We're
00:28:19 --> 00:28:22 not like a market team. So why would someone
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 want to invest in accounting? But they need to
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 do it because we're the foundation. So as an
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30 accounting leader, you need to be the one showing
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33 the return on investment of the tools you're
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36 going to bring. Number one, return of investment
00:28:36 --> 00:28:40 is time saved. Time saved that your team doesn't
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 have to do like silly work. Every tool that you're
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 assessing, you need to be like, okay, how much
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 time is this saving? for my accounting manager.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51 How much time is the saving for more reconciliation
00:28:51 --> 00:28:55 process? And once you know that, oh, all right,
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 you can advocate for it. And the time saving
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 can be translated in dollar value as well, because
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 you know how much your team costs you. And as
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 you're thinking about it, you're not thinking
00:29:06 --> 00:29:07 about now, you're thinking about the future.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 So that analysis is like an allocation, like
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 a resource allocation analysis that you have
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 to do. Because as you're doing that, you usually
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 have three or four choices. Either you outsource
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 someone else to do work, like an advisor or contractor.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:26 Either you buy a tool or either your team's office
00:29:26 --> 00:29:30 do it. Or you hire another person. Yeah, hire
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 another person. Or you can even build it internally
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 if you have the tools. So that's like four choices
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 that you have with the resources that you have,
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 which is money. Hopefully you have a budget for
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 it. you need to make a decision that's going
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 to affect your present and the future and Again,
00:29:47 --> 00:29:50 that decision is based on the return on investment
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52 and I'm caveatting that because some people they
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 might have different mindset Some people are
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 like, okay, I want it now because I have this
00:29:57 --> 00:30:00 problem now that I want to solve and if that's
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03 the case, maybe you just buy something Well,
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05 if you buy it, how long is it going to take you
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 to implement it? How long is it going to take
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 you for your team to really know how to use it?
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 But if you hire someone to do it So are you done?
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 Quick. Done. You move on. It depends on the situation.
00:30:17 --> 00:30:20 It depends on the prioritization. But again,
00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 it's all about allocation of resources in return
00:30:23 --> 00:30:28 of investment. So I use this usually to advocate
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 for the tools that we want. And usually, I do
00:30:31 --> 00:30:35 a really nice presentation with different key
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 things. And I share that with my executive team,
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40 management team. And sometimes, they're like,
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 OK. you can get it. It's already in your budget.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 Go for it. And sometimes they tell me, you know,
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 they're like, we'll build this for you. Do you
00:30:48 --> 00:30:52 need this now? I have to say that I'm extremely,
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 I like to ask for new things. So they're used
00:30:55 --> 00:31:00 to you. I don't get everything. But if I make
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 a really strong case, I usually get it. That
00:31:03 --> 00:31:07 is awesome. And I think You having been in the
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 tech, fintech industries, you are very strategic
00:31:10 --> 00:31:14 as an accountant. I feel like certain industries
00:31:14 --> 00:31:17 make you grow and stretch in different ways that
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 may be traditional. if I can say industry don't,
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 because you were in digital currency and then
00:31:23 --> 00:31:25 SaaS and all these good stuff. What are some
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 of the things, would you say, might surprise
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 people when they transition from, let's say,
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 manufacturing to a technology company? Like,
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 what would take you by surprise? I think for
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 me, the culture is extremely different. OK. And
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 it's interesting because as an auditor, I work
00:31:42 --> 00:31:43 with different type of companies, like I had
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 different type of clients. One day I would be
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 like working for Ghost ReStore and that was a
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 mom and pop shop. And then the next week I'll
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 be working in a technology company. And then
00:31:54 --> 00:31:56 the week after I'll be working at like pharmaceutical
00:31:56 --> 00:32:00 company, like focus on cancer research. So different
00:32:00 --> 00:32:03 culture, different mindset, and you need to be
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 able to adapt to that because each one of these
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 cultures focus on something different. They have
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12 different goals, but at the basis of that, they're
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 still people. And you'll be surprised, like we
00:32:14 --> 00:32:18 have the same commonalities. We have the same
00:32:18 --> 00:32:21 leaders. So as an auditor, I was able to adapt
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 myself to this different environment, different
00:32:24 --> 00:32:28 cultures, different personalities, like the controllers
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 that never came to work, that never wanted to
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 give you any audit evidence, that were leaning
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 inwards. And also the CFO that were like, too
00:32:36 --> 00:32:38 nice. You're like, oh my God, why is this person
00:32:38 --> 00:32:44 so nice? Are they hiding something? So as an
00:32:44 --> 00:32:47 auditor, I was able to do that. And that's why
00:32:47 --> 00:32:52 I feel like I'm always attracted to new environment.
00:32:52 --> 00:32:55 Like I had like challenges or like new things.
00:32:55 --> 00:32:57 And maybe it's because like I'm an immigrant,
00:32:57 --> 00:32:59 like I've lived in different countries and I
00:32:59 --> 00:33:02 always feel like I'm resilient enough. I'm adaptable
00:33:02 --> 00:33:07 enough to deal with that. But again, it's what
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 do you want? Like I like changes. I like new
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 things. I like exciting things. So when I left
00:33:12 --> 00:33:15 PwC as an auditor, I was an experienced audit
00:33:15 --> 00:33:18 manager. I could have stayed for one time. I
00:33:18 --> 00:33:22 was easy, traveling all over the US, which was
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 not ideal for a young mother, but it was good.
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 So when I saw that cryptocurrency job at Circle,
00:33:28 --> 00:33:31 that accounting manager job, I was like, oh my
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33 god, this is a chance to learn something new.
00:33:33 --> 00:33:35 I always want to learn something new. I have
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 this curiosity, which I think every accountant
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 is like, we have that. We're curious. We want
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 to know what things are happening. We want to
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45 know like what is in paywall, like who's making
00:33:45 --> 00:33:51 what. We want to know like why are we paying
00:33:51 --> 00:33:54 that much for this. So that curiosity is something
00:33:54 --> 00:33:57 that always brings me to different companies,
00:33:57 --> 00:34:00 to different industries. And I look for that.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:03 So now I'm a little bit like more experienced
00:34:03 --> 00:34:06 and I'm thinking about, okay, what are my career
00:34:06 --> 00:34:10 goals? And what is my career map? And I am more
00:34:10 --> 00:34:12 strategic in the type of company that I'm working
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14 for, but I still want like exciting company.
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 I went from SoCo. SoCo was like the currency.
00:34:17 --> 00:34:21 Nobody knew what Bitcoin was. And it was scary
00:34:21 --> 00:34:23 at time. Like I remember we were like, oh my
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 God, like whenever we would hear like a police
00:34:25 --> 00:34:27 siren, like, oh my God, they're coming for us.
00:34:29 --> 00:34:31 But I learned a lot. I learned a lot. I learned
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 about compliance. I learned about cryptocurrency.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:37 I learned about how to create new accounting
00:34:37 --> 00:34:40 and auditing standards for new class of assets.
00:34:41 --> 00:34:44 I learned about creating entities in different
00:34:44 --> 00:34:47 countries and the compliance side of it. So that
00:34:47 --> 00:34:51 was great. So I was always attracted to new exciting
00:34:51 --> 00:34:53 things. So when I started the job at Circle,
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 it was interesting because it was mostly a male
00:34:56 --> 00:34:59 -dominated environment with people that were
00:34:59 --> 00:35:04 extremely interested in crypto. which I never
00:35:04 --> 00:35:07 knew about crypto, but I was able to learn, I
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 was able to trade, and I learned a lot, and that
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12 was exciting. Then after SoCo, I was like, okay,
00:35:12 --> 00:35:14 what's new? And I went to an AI manufacturing
00:35:14 --> 00:35:17 company. That was extremely challenging because
00:35:17 --> 00:35:21 inventory, like big inventory, I don't know for
00:35:21 --> 00:35:24 you, like I was not a big fan of inventory accounting.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:31 Nobody is. But it was fun. but again it was mostly
00:35:31 --> 00:35:34 like engineers and all of them were like electrical
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 engineer mechanical engineers and working with
00:35:36 --> 00:35:40 them and understanding their work was great but
00:35:40 --> 00:35:43 I realized like it was extremely isolating so
00:35:43 --> 00:35:46 I didn't stay for a long time and after I was
00:35:46 --> 00:35:49 like okay what's popping what's exciting and
00:35:49 --> 00:35:52 at that time I was social media and I found this
00:35:52 --> 00:35:55 company that was doing like data analytics for
00:35:55 --> 00:35:59 social media that company was tracker and I went
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02 there and what they did was like pretty much
00:36:02 --> 00:36:07 like tracking influencers across all different
00:36:07 --> 00:36:11 social media. So brands like cosmetic brands,
00:36:11 --> 00:36:15 beauty brands, they can message and target customers.
00:36:15 --> 00:36:17 That was fun because I could spend my whole time
00:36:17 --> 00:36:24 on Instagram doing work. Yes. I learned a lot
00:36:24 --> 00:36:28 about that. And then Rem Kim. And I was interested
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30 because at that time, like expense reporting
00:36:30 --> 00:36:33 was extremely annoying for me. What companies
00:36:33 --> 00:36:37 are helping accountants? And I found that. So
00:36:37 --> 00:36:39 for me, like you need to have that natural curiosity
00:36:39 --> 00:36:43 to explore new things and do new things as an
00:36:43 --> 00:36:46 accountant. Like if you want to work for startup,
00:36:47 --> 00:36:50 that curiosity should exist. Like you should
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 be curious, should be resilient. You should be
00:36:52 --> 00:36:56 adaptable. And I feel like maybe like immigrant
00:36:56 --> 00:36:59 background. Yeah, because you're working outside
00:36:59 --> 00:37:02 of your comfort zone. My first language is French,
00:37:02 --> 00:37:05 so you, every time you speak, you are automatically
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08 outside of your comfort zone. So then it's easier
00:37:08 --> 00:37:10 to be outside of your comfort zone, because like,
00:37:10 --> 00:37:13 yeah, that's my daily life. Exactly. I'm always
00:37:13 --> 00:37:15 outside of my comfort zone. Like I'm in a country
00:37:15 --> 00:37:18 that's not mine. Well, it's mine now. I have
00:37:18 --> 00:37:21 kids. I have like a spouse, like property. It's
00:37:21 --> 00:37:25 mine now. I work in a language that has become
00:37:25 --> 00:37:28 mine. I work in industry that I have to learn.
00:37:28 --> 00:37:31 I work with people that I need to understand.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:34 And most of them, I don't see them most of the
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 time. Like we meet like four or five times per
00:37:36 --> 00:37:40 year. As an accountant, if you want to be a leader
00:37:40 --> 00:37:42 in a startup, those are all the skills you have
00:37:42 --> 00:37:46 to develop. Nice, nice. And what would you say
00:37:46 --> 00:37:50 would be some good advice for the upcoming generation
00:37:50 --> 00:37:52 of accounting and finance leaders? Because they're
00:37:52 --> 00:37:54 coming up and there are so many industries available,
00:37:55 --> 00:38:00 now many more standards, but also more AI and
00:38:00 --> 00:38:03 how it's changing the work that we do. Because
00:38:03 --> 00:38:05 we use ramp, like I said, and I can tell there's
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07 a lot of AI in the background because that software
00:38:07 --> 00:38:10 is smart. But what does it mean for the next
00:38:10 --> 00:38:12 generation of leaders? What do you think? What
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14 are some steps they could do to better prepare
00:38:14 --> 00:38:16 themselves for what's coming up in the future
00:38:16 --> 00:38:17 of finance and accounting? They need to invest
00:38:17 --> 00:38:21 in AI. AI is not going away. True. And then we
00:38:21 --> 00:38:22 think that AI is going to take our accounting
00:38:22 --> 00:38:25 job. That's not true. AI is just going to make
00:38:25 --> 00:38:28 our work different. It's going to help it, but
00:38:28 --> 00:38:30 it's going to make it more challenging for us
00:38:30 --> 00:38:35 to step up and grace it. And I can say like I
00:38:35 --> 00:38:38 was at Bentley College a couple of weeks ago
00:38:38 --> 00:38:41 for a case competition. and I talk to the students,
00:38:41 --> 00:38:43 like second, third, fourth year students in accounting,
00:38:44 --> 00:38:47 and they're learning like SQL. They're learning
00:38:47 --> 00:38:50 PowerDB. They're already using AI, so they understand
00:38:50 --> 00:38:55 that, and it's teaching them that. AI is here
00:38:55 --> 00:38:58 to do the silly work. You can create AI agent
00:38:58 --> 00:39:02 to do silly work. Like same thing, you can have
00:39:02 --> 00:39:06 a calculator, you can have formulas in Microsoft
00:39:06 --> 00:39:09 Excel. So when these tools were introduced, I'm
00:39:09 --> 00:39:11 sure people were concerned, oh my God, it's going
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 to take my work, but they just improved the work.
00:39:15 --> 00:39:17 And the same thing for AI, AI is going to improve
00:39:17 --> 00:39:22 the work. So now as the new generation of accountants,
00:39:22 --> 00:39:25 you need to know, what am I going to do? Because
00:39:25 --> 00:39:27 let's say if I wanted to be a bookkeeper, guess
00:39:27 --> 00:39:29 what? We probably not going to need bookkeeper
00:39:29 --> 00:39:34 anymore. That's very true. If you were going
00:39:34 --> 00:39:36 to be like an AP clerk. You are like, oh, I'm
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 going to be the best AP clerk ever. Well, your
00:39:39 --> 00:39:42 job is not going to be entering invoices anymore,
00:39:42 --> 00:39:44 categorizing them. There are tools that can do
00:39:44 --> 00:39:48 that. Web can do that for you. So as an AP clerk,
00:39:48 --> 00:39:51 your job is to give insight now. Your job is
00:39:51 --> 00:39:53 to make sure that the controls, the approval
00:39:53 --> 00:39:56 flow works and the settings work. Your job is
00:39:56 --> 00:40:00 to navigate relationship with partners across
00:40:00 --> 00:40:02 different departments and tell them, wow, your
00:40:02 --> 00:40:06 budget is not working. So, I feel like AI is
00:40:06 --> 00:40:10 going to elevate our work and make us like more
00:40:10 --> 00:40:14 useful rather than just doing silly work, rather
00:40:14 --> 00:40:17 than just doing like a task -oriented, we want
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20 to be more strategic. And that's what we want.
00:40:21 --> 00:40:23 Like learn how to ask the question, like what,
00:40:23 --> 00:40:29 why, so what. Learn how to dig deeper and focus
00:40:29 --> 00:40:32 and tell the story that the numbers are telling
00:40:32 --> 00:40:34 you. Because the AI will tell you the numbers.
00:40:34 --> 00:40:37 What is that story beyond that number? And for
00:40:37 --> 00:40:39 me, even for me, it's hard because I remember
00:40:39 --> 00:40:41 when I was studying with accounting, like my
00:40:41 --> 00:40:44 first audit job, I came to a room, that was the
00:40:44 --> 00:40:46 audit room, that was a conference room, close
00:40:46 --> 00:40:49 to the kitchen, of course. Yes, the one nobody
00:40:49 --> 00:40:54 wants to be in. It was really hot. And then they
00:40:54 --> 00:40:57 just gave us all these big binders. And my first
00:40:57 --> 00:41:00 job was like to go to the binders and pick sample
00:41:00 --> 00:41:04 and post it everywhere. Guess what? I don't even
00:41:04 --> 00:41:08 have paper at REF anymore. There's no binders,
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10 there's no papers. When the auditors come, we
00:41:10 --> 00:41:13 just send them a file electronically. So that's
00:41:13 --> 00:41:18 already a big challenge, right? For AI, at some
00:41:18 --> 00:41:21 point, I won't even have to do a little lookup,
00:41:21 --> 00:41:24 Excel, formatting. AI will do it. AI will tell
00:41:24 --> 00:41:27 the story. So I'll be the one presenting that
00:41:27 --> 00:41:31 story, doing the research, and giving the insight.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:33 becoming a better business partner. Exactly.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:37 So that technology is helping us be the best
00:41:37 --> 00:41:40 accountants, be the best collaborators, and help
00:41:40 --> 00:41:43 in the business skill. And again, I want to go
00:41:43 --> 00:41:47 back to the three goals of accounting. Keep the
00:41:47 --> 00:41:51 lights on. This can be automated for the assets.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:56 Part of it can be automated, but as an accounting
00:41:56 --> 00:41:58 leader, as an accounting manager, you have your
00:41:58 --> 00:42:01 role to play because you will know what the important
00:42:01 --> 00:42:05 assets are. And third is give information. So
00:42:05 --> 00:42:07 AI is going to help you compile information,
00:42:07 --> 00:42:10 organize it, but you will still have to tell
00:42:10 --> 00:42:12 that story. You still have to format it. You
00:42:12 --> 00:42:16 still have to like dig deeper and tell the stories
00:42:16 --> 00:42:19 that are important to people. Awesome. Well,
00:42:20 --> 00:42:24 thank you so, so much, Edwin. This was so insightful.
00:42:24 --> 00:42:27 Thank you so much because, again, you brought
00:42:27 --> 00:42:30 back the idea of accounting being such a backbone
00:42:30 --> 00:42:33 of any finance of any really business organization.
00:42:34 --> 00:42:36 Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank
00:42:36 --> 00:42:39 you for having me. It was so fun. Thank you.
00:42:39 --> 00:42:42 And that's it for today's episode of The Diary
00:42:42 --> 00:42:45 of a CFO. Thank you so much for tuning in. If
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