From Combat Zones to Corporate Finance: Stephen McLain on Leading in High-Stakes Environments

00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:07.559 Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast, the 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:09.779 podcast where finance leaders share the lessons, 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:12.359 challenges, and wins that shape their careers 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:15.000 as well as their organizations. I'm your host, 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:17.640 Wassia Kamon, and today I'm so delighted to 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:20.500 have with me Stephen McLain. Stephen is a U .S. 00:00:20.539 --> 00:00:23.719 Army retired finance officer who served in various 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:26.399 leadership roles in the United States and in 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:29.160 overseas locations including Norway, Somalia, 00:00:29.460 --> 00:00:32.350 Kuwait, and Iraq. He finished his career at the 00:00:32.350 --> 00:00:35.609 Pentagon, serving as the Army staff, overseeing 00:00:35.609 --> 00:00:37.789 the development of the Army's annual budget. 00:00:38.310 --> 00:00:40.530 Since then, Stephen has worked as a consultant 00:00:40.530 --> 00:00:42.950 in various industries, including a restaurant 00:00:42.950 --> 00:00:45.590 chain, global manufacturing, insurance retail, 00:00:45.750 --> 00:00:48.289 and healthcare. Stephen recently founded the 00:00:48.289 --> 00:00:50.109 Finance Leader Academy and holds the Finance 00:00:50.109 --> 00:00:53.020 Leader Podcast, which is a must. Listen if you 00:00:53.020 --> 00:00:55.880 haven't done so already he was also an instructor 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:58.219 on the finance executive accelerated program 00:00:58.219 --> 00:01:00.659 Formerly known as the office of the CFO boot 00:01:00.659 --> 00:01:03.420 camp where he taught a master class on the CFO 00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:06.680 mindset and skillset Welcome to the show Steven. 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:08.959 Well, see ya. Thank you so much for having me 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:11.359 on your podcast I appreciate it. We have known 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:13.799 each other for a little while now We connected 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:16.159 a couple years ago on LinkedIn and I've really 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:19.840 so much enjoyed your growth You are everywhere 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:21.799 and I love seeing you everywhere in all these 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:25.500 conferences, podcasts, articles. So I really 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:28.599 enjoyed your journey. And again, thank you so 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:31.879 much for coming on your podcast today. You came 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:34.480 on mine a year ago. You came on mine. So I really 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.180 appreciate that. Yes, and I came on yours and 00:01:37.180 --> 00:01:40.019 I was like, oh, this is so cool. And when the 00:01:40.019 --> 00:01:41.659 opportunity came, I was like, oh, let me do it. 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:43.659 And then I was like, oh my God, Steven made it 00:01:43.659 --> 00:01:46.359 look easy as well as Paul Barnhurst. I'm like, 00:01:46.540 --> 00:01:50.140 this stuff is hard. It definitely is very time 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:52.620 intensive. It takes a lot of work, a lot of research, 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.739 and then just pre -production, getting ready, 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:58.420 recording, and then your post -production, getting 00:01:58.420 --> 00:02:00.359 your episode ready to get published. It's a lot 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:03.189 of work. It is, it is, but you guys made it look 00:02:03.189 --> 00:02:07.109 so easy. So here we are today. So let's start 00:02:07.109 --> 00:02:09.449 with your journey. Like what are the twists and 00:02:09.449 --> 00:02:12.650 turns behind how you find yourself in your current 00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:16.389 role in business? Yeah, absolutely. So you obviously 00:02:16.389 --> 00:02:18.189 mentioned that I had a career in the army. So 00:02:18.189 --> 00:02:20.689 I joined the army right out of high school. So 00:02:20.689 --> 00:02:24.340 I enlisted, I did it for the college money. When 00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:26.520 I went to the recruiter, I said, hey, I need 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:28.000 college money. I didn't have the money to go 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.520 to school at the time. And I said, what can I 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:32.819 do to get the most college money at the time? 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:35.280 Probably still is true now. And that you go into 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.539 combat arms. So either infantry, artillery, air 00:02:38.539 --> 00:02:41.740 defense, armor, those kind of roles. And they 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:45.560 give you the big package for college money. So 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:48.800 I did that first enlistment, got out after three 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.360 and a half years, went to school, got my accounting 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.400 degree. So I've always wanted to do something 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:56.199 with numbers. I knew I was either going to go 00:02:56.199 --> 00:03:00.000 into science or business, and I felt that accounting 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.080 was the best place for me. I also made that decision 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.060 as I was transitioning from my enlisted time 00:03:07.060 --> 00:03:10.300 into school that I wanted to continue my career 00:03:10.300 --> 00:03:13.139 in the Army. So I also applied for an Army ROTC 00:03:13.139 --> 00:03:15.699 scholarship. Got that scholarship and then of 00:03:15.699 --> 00:03:17.819 course when I graduated with my accounting degree 00:03:17.819 --> 00:03:20.379 I went right back into the army probably two 00:03:20.379 --> 00:03:22.379 weeks after I graduated So I went right back 00:03:22.379 --> 00:03:25.379 on to active duty and I made another critical 00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:28.280 decision So obviously wanted to do something 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:32.740 in the accounting finance space, but I also Wanted 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:35.259 to continue to learn leadership. So at the time 00:03:35.259 --> 00:03:41.520 the army had the finance capability and the senior 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.449 finance skills were separate. So when you were 00:03:45.449 --> 00:03:48.650 to go into the army and finance as a lieutenant, 00:03:49.069 --> 00:03:51.069 which, you know, after I graduated, that's what 00:03:51.069 --> 00:03:53.669 I was commissioned as, you would be more working 00:03:53.669 --> 00:03:58.370 on the cash dispersing side and military pay. 00:03:58.849 --> 00:04:00.849 You were not going to give that opportunity to 00:04:00.849 --> 00:04:04.590 work forecasting budgets, financial management 00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:07.729 until you were to... get promoted into the higher 00:04:07.729 --> 00:04:10.530 ranks. So I wanted to continue to develop my 00:04:10.530 --> 00:04:13.330 leadership skills. So I decided to go ahead and 00:04:13.330 --> 00:04:16.310 commission right back into the same branch that 00:04:16.310 --> 00:04:18.269 I did when I was enlisted. So that's field artillery. 00:04:18.410 --> 00:04:20.610 I wanted to continue to grow my leadership skills. 00:04:20.930 --> 00:04:23.490 So I did that. So I went on to, as a lieutenant, 00:04:23.689 --> 00:04:26.550 went to back into field artillery, was able to 00:04:26.550 --> 00:04:29.689 lead the platoon level. I also led at the company 00:04:29.689 --> 00:04:31.670 level. So platoon, you have about 30 soldiers 00:04:31.670 --> 00:04:35.110 you're leading. At the company level, I led 250 00:04:35.110 --> 00:04:38.399 soldiers. for about two and a half years. And 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:41.060 then I started that transition. That was at that 00:04:41.060 --> 00:04:43.300 point in my career, I was able to transition 00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:45.560 to comptroller. That's how they divided it up 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:48.240 at the time when I transitioned. So finance, 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.019 you did your cash dispersing, military pay skills, 00:04:52.060 --> 00:04:54.439 and then at the higher levels, you get your comptroller. 00:04:55.220 --> 00:04:58.319 And so that first assignment that I got, they 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.019 gave me the role as auditor internal review officer 00:05:02.019 --> 00:05:05.019 for the army in Iraq. This is about a year and 00:05:05.019 --> 00:05:08.319 a half into the deployment there. This is about, 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:11.759 at the end, towards the end of 2004. And this 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:15.139 is about the time that senior leadership, and 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:18.459 especially Congress, was looking for more accountability 00:05:18.459 --> 00:05:22.300 around the funds we were using in the theater 00:05:22.300 --> 00:05:25.199 of Iraq. The mission that I was given going into 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.079 Iraq was to develop a very robust internal review 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.540 management control program. to start to close 00:05:32.540 --> 00:05:36.120 some loops on some use of funds so we can reduce 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:39.139 fraud, waste, and abuse, and also to make sure 00:05:39.139 --> 00:05:41.579 that we were closing the loop on some accountability, 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:43.740 especially like equipment accountability. Who 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:46.279 wants to see an auditor show up on a combat zone, 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:51.399 right? So I was not received well at the beginning 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.180 because who is this guy going to come in and 00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:56.639 tell us how to use our funds when we're trying 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.360 to help Iraq? Defeat an insurgency and try to 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.720 get them stabilized and to help them create a 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.259 government focused on freedom going forward And 00:06:05.259 --> 00:06:06.740 this guy wants to come in and tell us how to 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:08.899 use our money into a more and more efficient 00:06:08.899 --> 00:06:11.100 way So no, I was not the most well -received 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:14.319 person in Iraq at the time But got a lot of buy 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:17.620 -in the senior commander was definitely on board 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:20.040 and their staff because we knew this is something 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.819 we needed to do. So I'm very proud of myself 00:06:22.819 --> 00:06:25.360 of the work that I was able to do in Iraq in 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:28.240 that first assignment, that transition from that 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.759 combat arms leader to financial management. We 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:33.800 were able to close some loops on some fraud, 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:36.500 waste, and abuse, and to also use our funds more 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:38.860 efficiently. And then that turns around and helps 00:06:38.860 --> 00:06:41.699 that ground commander in Iraq to be able to have 00:06:41.699 --> 00:06:43.699 even more funds available for the mission that 00:06:43.699 --> 00:06:45.579 they were doing. So I was really thrilled with 00:06:45.579 --> 00:06:48.699 that. opportunities that I was given there and 00:06:48.699 --> 00:06:51.500 walked away very happy with the role that I had. 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:55.420 Coming out of that, I had one more role that 00:06:55.420 --> 00:06:57.500 I had to serve with field artillery helping the 00:06:57.500 --> 00:06:59.860 garden reserve deploy. I was down in Mississippi 00:06:59.860 --> 00:07:02.480 for two years after that role and then permanently 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:04.920 switched over to financial management coming 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.060 out of that one to one more deployment to Iraq 00:07:08.060 --> 00:07:11.699 overseeing financial operations in southern Iraq. 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:15.110 So from about the southern part of Baghdad all 00:07:15.110 --> 00:07:17.509 the way down to the Persian Gulf and then out 00:07:17.509 --> 00:07:21.509 west to out in the desert towards, you know, 00:07:22.230 --> 00:07:25.110 the borders of Jordan and so forth. So, responsible 00:07:25.110 --> 00:07:28.170 finance operations for about 15 months. That 00:07:28.170 --> 00:07:31.430 was a long deployment. Had a really excellent, 00:07:31.589 --> 00:07:33.750 proud moments there, too, in that same responsibility, 00:07:34.269 --> 00:07:37.970 advising commanders on the ground, economic development. 00:07:38.509 --> 00:07:41.129 We also were in a transition from using U .S. 00:07:41.529 --> 00:07:45.720 dollars physical currency, U .S. dollars to transitioning 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:49.639 those to electronic disbursements and also trying 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:52.879 to strengthen their Iraqi Dinar in country because 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:54.839 we wanted U .S. dollars off the battlefield. 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:57.920 What happens with U .S. dollars? U .S. dollars, 00:07:57.939 --> 00:08:00.819 of course, can be used globally. They also were 00:08:00.819 --> 00:08:04.379 used to purchase bomb making materials and IED 00:08:04.379 --> 00:08:06.339 making materials. So we wanted to get as many 00:08:06.339 --> 00:08:08.879 U .S. dollars off the battlefield as possible. 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:12.589 So that's why we were transitioning to the use 00:08:12.589 --> 00:08:16.470 of electronic payments and using strengthening 00:08:16.470 --> 00:08:20.350 that local currency. So at the time, we also 00:08:20.350 --> 00:08:23.050 partnered with my other senior finance officers 00:08:23.050 --> 00:08:26.329 in trying to strengthen the Iraqi banking system 00:08:26.329 --> 00:08:29.449 and trying to get it to a more modern banking 00:08:29.449 --> 00:08:32.669 system. That was the last, also the last piece 00:08:32.669 --> 00:08:35.860 for Iraq to be able to joined the World Trade 00:08:35.860 --> 00:08:38.379 Organization, was a good robust banking system. 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:41.379 So it all kind of fit together. Again, very proud 00:08:41.379 --> 00:08:43.679 of that deployment. Coming out of that deployment, 00:08:43.779 --> 00:08:47.519 I was assigned to Norway. So NATO, I was in charge 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:51.399 of a communications and IT budget for four years. 00:08:51.740 --> 00:08:55.059 One of the skills that I was able to develop 00:08:55.059 --> 00:08:58.279 and learn out of that role was that I had to 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.059 every year, not just submit a budget, but I had 00:09:01.059 --> 00:09:04.899 to go to Brussels every year and hash the Have 00:09:04.899 --> 00:09:07.320 to defend my budget in front of the committee 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:11.019 of nations So all so every representative of 00:09:11.019 --> 00:09:13.799 every country that was part of nato had this 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:15.639 representative on this committee So at the time 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.820 was 28 nations. So I had to go if you ever watched 00:09:18.820 --> 00:09:21.820 a congressional Hearing congressional testimony 00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:24.139 just imagine me having to go into this committee 00:09:24.139 --> 00:09:27.879 room 28 members of nato and having to go through 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:31.120 and defend every line of my budget getting grilled 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:34.100 by every it was probably about half the nations 00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:36.620 actually started asking questions. Imagine having 00:09:36.620 --> 00:09:39.120 to go in and having that responsibility, not 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.059 just submitting it, but actually getting grilled 00:09:41.059 --> 00:09:43.639 on every line of your budget and then getting 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:45.299 it approved. And then they didn't have any changes. 00:09:45.379 --> 00:09:48.759 So I was thrilled that every year we didn't have 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.220 any changes that we needed to make to accept 00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:54.159 with my budget. We moved on and executed. So 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.899 that helped me develop some really incredible 00:09:56.899 --> 00:10:00.080 skills, presentation skills, having to be able 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.960 to answer under pressure. These questions about 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.399 use of funds. What are we planning to do? What 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:09.179 requirement does this meet as far as the big 00:10:09.179 --> 00:10:11.399 picture for what we were doing up in Norway? 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:15.120 So fantastic Assignment and then out of that 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.539 I was assigned to the Pentagon So I did my last 00:10:18.539 --> 00:10:21.279 two and a half years of my career in the Pentagon 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:26.019 Fantastic assignment was assigned to a team of 00:10:26.019 --> 00:10:29.379 eight officers. There were six what we call operational 00:10:29.379 --> 00:10:32.750 research officers. These were numbers experts, 00:10:33.450 --> 00:10:35.970 and then one strategy officer, and then I was 00:10:35.970 --> 00:10:38.990 the only finance officer that was assigned to 00:10:38.990 --> 00:10:42.230 the team. And this team was the one that oversaw 00:10:42.230 --> 00:10:46.470 the overall development of the annual budget 00:10:46.470 --> 00:10:49.389 for the U .S. Army. So at the time, our budget 00:10:49.389 --> 00:10:55.750 was about $120 billion, about 543 programs. And 00:10:55.750 --> 00:10:58.730 the budget, it takes hundreds of people going 00:10:58.730 --> 00:11:02.389 levels down. to develop all these programs. Anywhere 00:11:02.389 --> 00:11:05.830 from equipment purchasing to airborne training 00:11:05.830 --> 00:11:10.750 to ammunition manufacturing purchasing to annual 00:11:10.750 --> 00:11:13.990 training for National Guard and reserves and 00:11:13.990 --> 00:11:17.330 prepping for rotations going overseas. And so 00:11:17.330 --> 00:11:21.350 we were that final team that was going to overwatch 00:11:21.350 --> 00:11:23.610 this entire development process. And then when 00:11:23.610 --> 00:11:27.639 it comes to the budget approval process going 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:29.759 in front of the secretary of the army, which 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:32.000 is a civilian, and the chief of staff of the 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.779 army, which is a four -star general, and, of 00:11:34.779 --> 00:11:36.279 course, the sergeant major of the army, which 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:39.879 is our highest -ranking sergeant, our NCO of 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:42.620 this army. And then presenting four distinct 00:11:42.620 --> 00:11:45.019 presentations over about a four or five -month 00:11:45.019 --> 00:11:48.639 period, laying down what our budget was going 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:52.039 to be and our recommended... how the force was 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:53.860 going to be laid out, how the force was going 00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:57.379 to be used, how many people we were going to 00:11:57.379 --> 00:12:01.960 need, and then significant resourcing issues, 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.080 ensuring that we were going to meet the strategic 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.559 priorities of the president and the secretary 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:10.360 of defense, and then meeting all the requirements 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.480 that Congress also laid down. Because, of course, 00:12:12.580 --> 00:12:14.960 you know, Congress has the power of the purse. 00:12:15.230 --> 00:12:17.669 the federal government. So they're the ones that 00:12:17.669 --> 00:12:19.769 has the final approval over our budgets. We need 00:12:19.769 --> 00:12:22.669 to make sure we met all their guidance also. 00:12:23.549 --> 00:12:26.350 So of course, once we go through this whole program, 00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:30.929 these four briefings and feedback, and then adjustments 00:12:30.929 --> 00:12:33.830 in the database, then this moves over to the 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:36.809 Army Budget Office. They turn what we call programming 00:12:36.809 --> 00:12:40.570 language, budget programming language, into appropriation 00:12:40.570 --> 00:12:43.669 language for Congress. And then they do probably 00:12:43.669 --> 00:12:46.870 a couple of... use a couple tools like smoothing 00:12:46.870 --> 00:12:49.450 out some of them because we usually would provide 00:12:49.450 --> 00:12:52.009 a five -year plan on how we were going to spend 00:12:52.009 --> 00:12:55.370 the money. And then you go into that second phase 00:12:55.370 --> 00:13:00.169 is defending your budget. So we do a peer review 00:13:00.169 --> 00:13:03.389 among all the services. I was the representative 00:13:03.389 --> 00:13:05.950 from the Army to the Navy and the Marine Corps. 00:13:06.029 --> 00:13:09.769 So I had to sit in on all of the meetings that 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:12.070 the Navy and the Marine Corps did. and their 00:13:12.070 --> 00:13:15.090 budget. And so I was able to speak on behalf 00:13:15.090 --> 00:13:17.470 of the Army and we voted, each of the services 00:13:17.470 --> 00:13:20.169 voted on how their budget was going to impact 00:13:20.169 --> 00:13:23.129 our budget and vice versa. They sent representatives 00:13:23.129 --> 00:13:25.950 to our meetings and we defended our budgets. 00:13:26.470 --> 00:13:30.289 So at the time, to get a budget from requirements 00:13:30.289 --> 00:13:33.690 development to approval at the congressional 00:13:33.690 --> 00:13:38.639 level was a 22 month process. Wow. Okay, what 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:41.720 do we do at corporate? It's like a couple of 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:44.240 months, right? Usually a couple of months. This 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:49.320 is a 22 month process go from analyzing the strategy 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.779 that the president has laid down what does just 00:13:52.779 --> 00:13:56.059 Secretary of Defense then of course modifies 00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:58.379 and improve and you know, it puts their take 00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:01.419 on it and then analyzing those requirements and 00:14:01.419 --> 00:14:04.620 then turning those requirements and start assigning 00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:07.460 resources and then making sure that we were going 00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:08.899 to meet all those requirements. If we were going 00:14:08.899 --> 00:14:10.240 to meet those requirements, then we need to, 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.340 of course, raise the red flag and say, hey, we 00:14:13.340 --> 00:14:15.259 need some additional guidance or additional resources. 00:14:16.460 --> 00:14:18.399 So what are the skills that we're learning at 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:21.419 that level? Obviously, you've got to do that 00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:25.519 transition to strategic leader, understanding 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:29.419 the importance of strategy. Long -term strategy, 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:31.720 you know the US military each of the services 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:34.139 has kind of a different window the army Looks 00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:36.340 out about 20 years. Can you imagine right now? 00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:39.039 Can you imagine in your job as CFO right now? 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:41.120 Do you how far out do you guys look maybe what 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.980 three to five years? Yes, maybe imagine looking 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:47.159 20 years out and trying to Figure out what the 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:49.539 world is gonna look like in 20 years and then 00:14:49.539 --> 00:14:52.720 and then you start that's how you We start to 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.429 figure out those procurement programs The Navy 00:14:56.429 --> 00:15:00.330 looks out 40 to 50 years with ship acquisition, 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:03.490 their aircraft carriers. What's the world going 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:06.090 to look like in 40 to 50 years? Do we know? It's 00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:08.389 a guess, right? It's a guess. Do we even know 00:15:08.389 --> 00:15:10.190 what the world's going to look like in the next 00:15:10.190 --> 00:15:12.610 two to three years right now, realistically, 00:15:13.250 --> 00:15:15.870 given the political dynamics that are going on 00:15:15.870 --> 00:15:17.289 right now in the world? Do we really know what 00:15:17.289 --> 00:15:20.210 that looks like? So you've got to really up your 00:15:20.210 --> 00:15:23.419 strategic skills. when you're starting to work 00:15:23.419 --> 00:15:28.120 in that type of role. Coming to the finish of 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.620 my Pentagon time, I'm way past 20 years, and 00:15:33.620 --> 00:15:37.279 I'm looking to transition from officer to civilian, 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:40.419 and I wanted to do something different. So a 00:15:40.419 --> 00:15:43.659 lot of my peers, especially as a finance officer, 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:46.200 a lot of the times they either choose a role 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.419 as a civilian working for the Army, doing the 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:51.980 same thing. or working for a defense contractor, 00:15:52.659 --> 00:15:55.000 either working for the army or for the DOD doing 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.059 the very same thing. But I wanted to do something 00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:59.559 a little different. I wanted to get out of that 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:03.139 private sector and I wanted to help. I wanted 00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:06.340 to create something and help in this type of 00:16:06.340 --> 00:16:09.340 industry. But I needed to learn, I needed to 00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:13.120 learn, I had a skills gap between what the government 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.240 and military does. You know, we don't have a 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:19.289 profit incentive. Needed to learn about margin. 00:16:19.289 --> 00:16:22.009 I needed to learn about the traditional financial 00:16:22.009 --> 00:16:24.769 statements that a corporation in a company that 00:16:24.769 --> 00:16:27.230 would produce I needed to learn bottom line I 00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:30.250 need to learn what does that mean to focus on? 00:16:30.429 --> 00:16:34.470 Some of the the expense lines and the PNL of 00:16:34.470 --> 00:16:36.950 where I can affect things So I needed so I went 00:16:36.950 --> 00:16:39.549 and worked for a national restaurant chain for 00:16:39.549 --> 00:16:42.690 about 15 17 months Also within a couple minutes 00:16:42.690 --> 00:16:45.519 of retiring. I started a blog Didn't know what 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.759 I wanted to do. I was kind of like just blogging 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:51.539 a little bit here about leadership, maybe some 00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:53.679 business, not quite sure what I wanted to do, 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.200 kind of figuring that kind of stuff out. And 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:59.379 of course, working with my skill set that I had, 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.360 the leadership at this restaurant chain decided 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.980 to put me in a strategic role. So I was working 00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:09.319 on the FP &A side, working with the CEO and the 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:12.960 executive team on the high level strategic menu 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.500 analysis. So that gave me a lot of one -on -one, 00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:21.059 a lot of real tight relationships with the CEO, 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.859 which this company was a $4 billion company. 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.819 So the CEO, the chief operations officer, chief 00:17:28.819 --> 00:17:31.480 marketing officer, and the sourcing officer. 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:33.920 And it gave me, it's really strengthened, continued 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.880 to strengthen my skills in that transition from 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.109 military government. to private sector. So it's 00:17:40.109 --> 00:17:42.950 able to do that. So, but I decided ultimately, 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:46.009 you know, I, I love leadership. I love to be 00:17:46.009 --> 00:17:48.990 able to help people. So after about, I can't 00:17:48.990 --> 00:17:51.250 remember, it was maybe 15, 17 months working 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:54.430 with this company. I really wanted to jump out 00:17:54.430 --> 00:17:58.230 there and do more consulting. So out there and 00:17:58.230 --> 00:18:01.269 help people I help or help, especially since 00:18:01.269 --> 00:18:04.309 I like the finance side, help FP &A teams. or 00:18:04.309 --> 00:18:08.390 including and accounting teams to be able to 00:18:08.390 --> 00:18:10.930 maybe work on something that they're struggling 00:18:10.930 --> 00:18:14.210 with. Sometimes it takes an outsider to come 00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:16.730 in and see something a little differently to 00:18:16.730 --> 00:18:20.349 solve a problem. So I was able to work with some 00:18:20.349 --> 00:18:22.410 companies that are around Nashville. I'm based 00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:25.690 in the Nashville area and work, come in and solve 00:18:25.690 --> 00:18:28.130 some things that... that they couldn't see for 00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:31.269 themselves. Something that you think is so obvious, 00:18:31.890 --> 00:18:33.609 but you have another set of eyes, another set 00:18:33.609 --> 00:18:36.390 of experience, another skill set on it, and then 00:18:36.390 --> 00:18:38.849 you'll be able to guide them through. So of course, 00:18:38.970 --> 00:18:42.109 the last seven, eight years working with various 00:18:42.109 --> 00:18:44.809 companies around in the Nashville area, and of 00:18:44.809 --> 00:18:47.410 course, I continue to have that desire that I 00:18:47.410 --> 00:18:49.680 want to be a teacher, I want to teach. folks 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:52.920 and develop skills. So started the podcast, the 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.160 finance leader podcast at the beginning of 2020, 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.900 you know, right before COVID hit. Oh, wow. Yep. 00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.900 You know, one of the things I saw a gap in is 00:19:02.900 --> 00:19:06.099 leadership skills. You know, one thing that the 00:19:06.099 --> 00:19:08.180 military does differently is that if you're going 00:19:08.180 --> 00:19:10.819 to do what we would call FP &A type of roles 00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:13.839 or skills, the army uses senior officers to do 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.460 that role. And of course, in corporate America, 00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:19.660 you have a kid coming out of college that's going 00:19:19.660 --> 00:19:22.140 to be jumped right in to do that FP &A analyst 00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:24.920 role, has no experience other than what they 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:27.019 just learned in school or what you teach them. 00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:32.299 There is a gap on leading people. You know, people 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:36.299 are complex. Yes. And it's not just as you gain 00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:39.099 in role, you're going to have to learn how to 00:19:39.099 --> 00:19:41.799 manage and deal with people because they're complex. 00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:44.059 They're not a spreadsheet. You can't just type 00:19:44.059 --> 00:19:47.440 in a formula and make something work, right? 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.160 Right. They're not a robot. And so I saw this 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:54.119 gap. If you're a technical expert, I hardly believe 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:57.019 you can do your time and you do your job well, 00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.480 you will get promoted to team manager without 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:01.299 a problem. If you're doing the things you're 00:20:01.299 --> 00:20:03.339 supposed to be doing, because you've become probably 00:20:03.339 --> 00:20:07.019 an expert on how projections, forecasting, and 00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:11.420 how to present information. But what you're lacking, 00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:13.119 once you become that team manager and you have 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.299 three or four analysts or staff accountants working 00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:19.180 for you, and they have problems and they've got 00:20:19.180 --> 00:20:23.059 challenges, and how do you manage to meet your 00:20:23.059 --> 00:20:26.440 boss's priorities, your organization's priorities, 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:29.000 while also managing these three or four people? 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:33.309 And then half your day is fire drills. from things 00:20:33.309 --> 00:20:36.049 you're trying to get done, how do you establish 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:40.349 those priorities? And also, how do you take care 00:20:40.349 --> 00:20:41.829 of these three or four people that have been 00:20:41.829 --> 00:20:44.910 assigned to you? They're not just robots. They're 00:20:44.910 --> 00:20:48.730 people with needs, development needs. You have 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:52.589 one or two probably, maybe one who want to go 00:20:52.589 --> 00:20:56.410 on, who'll be your superstar. How do you help 00:20:56.410 --> 00:20:59.099 that person? Continue to develop that potential 00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:01.000 then you have one person wants to show up and 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:03.559 just punch a clock and do the bare minimum How 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.220 do you how do you kind of like try to coach that 00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:07.980 person to becoming a little bit better? Then 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:09.720 you got a couple of people they're trying to 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:11.900 do their very best Maybe need to do a little 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:14.660 bit of coaching But the problem is we don't we 00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:18.619 don't set up those individual contributors Who 00:21:18.619 --> 00:21:21.799 are ready to delete a team? we don't give them 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:24.740 a lot of those skills. And a lot of time it's 00:21:24.740 --> 00:21:26.480 on the job and sometimes they do well, sometimes 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.140 they don't. So I saw a gap and I felt that the 00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:31.299 Finance Leader podcast was going to be a great 00:21:31.299 --> 00:21:34.900 tool to kind of help fill that gap. So that's 00:21:34.900 --> 00:21:37.319 what I've been trying to work on that podcast. 00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:40.579 That was 228 episodes. Most of the time it's 00:21:40.579 --> 00:21:42.839 just me talking. I've done a couple of interviews. 00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:45.299 You of course have said before you came on the 00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:48.890 podcast. a little over a year ago. I've recently 00:21:48.890 --> 00:21:52.029 done a couple of interviews with one CEO of a 00:21:52.029 --> 00:21:54.750 global company and a couple of founders of an 00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:57.009 amazing consulting firm that's based here in 00:21:57.009 --> 00:21:59.829 the States. So that's a little bit of my journey, 00:21:59.849 --> 00:22:03.349 and I'm continuing to want to try to help folks 00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:05.049 develop those critical skills. You, of course, 00:22:05.130 --> 00:22:08.170 invited me to be part of your CFO leadership 00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:11.230 boot camp and developed out your part of the 00:22:11.230 --> 00:22:14.069 program on the CFO mindset, which was absolutely 00:22:14.069 --> 00:22:17.259 amazing. Enjoyed our time together. Yeah, one 00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:18.539 of the one of those things I think the things 00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:20.920 that we talked about One thing I talk about on 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:23.680 the podcast is about being coachable and one 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:25.720 of the things I want to encourage people to be 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:28.779 is That it's a skill that we I think that goes 00:22:28.779 --> 00:22:31.500 Overlooked a lot is that when we were developing 00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:35.599 the program I was giving you what you kind of 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:37.740 gave me the oversight of what it should be. I 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:40.940 gave you some initial Thoughts and an outline 00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:43.720 you gave me gave some back some great feedback 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.180 now some people can go in two directions Oh, 00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:48.539 well, I don't want to work with she's being mean 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:50.680 to me. I don't think our feedback means anything 00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.140 But on the other hand on the other hand being 00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:56.039 coachable means we're having respect for this 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:58.079 person is giving you feedback You're looking 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.079 at yourself. You're introspecting. Hey, this 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.220 is amazing feedback And I think what we do is 00:23:03.220 --> 00:23:08.019 we combine all this experience skills feedback 00:23:08.019 --> 00:23:11.359 from our boss and you end up being a better person. 00:23:11.420 --> 00:23:14.200 So there's a lot of development, back and forth 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.660 development. And I think we came out with a great 00:23:16.660 --> 00:23:19.559 that part of your program. But that was the back 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.240 of it wasn't just me. That was a back and forth. 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:25.460 You and me having conversations to where we want 00:23:25.460 --> 00:23:28.460 it to be. That's something that I'm looking for 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:31.299 in people and trying to obviously trying to help 00:23:31.299 --> 00:23:35.319 folks become coachable. Have an open mind. Listen 00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:37.420 to the feedback that your boss has given you. 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.420 Because in the long run, especially for the managers 00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:42.140 and leaders that are out there that really want 00:23:42.140 --> 00:23:44.960 to invest in their people, you're going to become 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:46.420 better in the end and you're going to have a 00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:49.019 better product and a better work environment 00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:52.319 and everything else. Wow. And it was such a joy 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.079 for me to work with you, Stephen. And I don't 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:57.640 even know where to begin because first, thank 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.779 you for your service to this country. Your experience 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:05.099 is amazing. Your spirit, yourself, you're just 00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:09.630 an amazing human being. Part of me is excited. 00:24:09.809 --> 00:24:12.509 Thank you. But part of me hurts because when 00:24:12.509 --> 00:24:15.930 people like you, when veterans make that transition, 00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:19.609 the experience, the work ethics, the skills you 00:24:19.609 --> 00:24:22.769 bring to the civilian or to the private sector 00:24:22.769 --> 00:24:25.839 are not always appreciated. Like when you were 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:29.400 talking about how you had to defend your budget, 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.420 where you were in Norway, where you were in NATO, 00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:34.460 where you were in the US, this is some serious 00:24:34.460 --> 00:24:37.099 business partnering skills. I can even begin 00:24:37.099 --> 00:24:40.720 to imagine doing a 20 years, 40 years budget 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:43.400 of forecast. So can you please dive a little 00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:46.500 more about what was that transition like and 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:50.099 what can us in corporate finance, in private 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:54.430 finance and accounting learn from you? Right. 00:24:54.730 --> 00:24:58.509 So the transition, you know, it depends on who 00:24:58.509 --> 00:25:01.109 you're going to be working with. If they have 00:25:01.109 --> 00:25:04.210 an open mind on coming in. And then the veteran 00:25:04.210 --> 00:25:07.549 also has to have an open mind because I'm transitioning 00:25:07.549 --> 00:25:10.710 in to corporate America in my 40s. I'm in my 00:25:10.710 --> 00:25:15.809 mid 40s. And the boss that I had was probably 00:25:15.809 --> 00:25:20.710 30ish, 30. And even in the consulting roles that 00:25:20.710 --> 00:25:25.150 I've had, I've typically had Helping either a 00:25:25.150 --> 00:25:27.329 manager or director or somebody that's about 00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:31.490 30. There's a age gap So getting over that age 00:25:31.490 --> 00:25:34.710 gap and knowing hey, we have a problem to solve 00:25:34.710 --> 00:25:39.089 How can we work together and get over this age 00:25:39.089 --> 00:25:42.329 gap? So I think that was part of that Knowing 00:25:42.329 --> 00:25:45.289 there's both both parties have to come in with 00:25:45.289 --> 00:25:47.849 an open mind and ready to work ready to solve 00:25:47.849 --> 00:25:51.619 a problem for the 30 -somethings managers that 00:25:51.619 --> 00:25:54.079 are out there, your veterans have tons of experience. 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:57.200 They've been through a lot, especially if they 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:00.700 have deployed to combat. So they can handle crisis 00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:05.160 and adversity and be resilient and calm in a 00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:07.000 tough situation because they've had to develop 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.720 those skills. Take advantage of all those skills. 00:26:09.980 --> 00:26:13.079 Don't think that this old person is coming in 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:15.099 and is going to be stubborn. And hopefully the 00:26:15.099 --> 00:26:17.140 veterans don't come in with that kind of attitude, 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.049 too. Come in and take advantage of all those 00:26:20.049 --> 00:26:23.529 skills and that mindset that they're coming in 00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:25.309 and ready to solve problems because they've solved 00:26:25.309 --> 00:26:28.430 the problems for 20 years plus. That's part of 00:26:28.430 --> 00:26:31.130 an open mindedness. I love it. I love it. And 00:26:31.130 --> 00:26:33.890 then I know you are involved with a lot of veterans 00:26:33.890 --> 00:26:37.049 association, even now that you are consulting 00:26:37.049 --> 00:26:39.569 in FP &A. Can you share a bit more about your 00:26:39.569 --> 00:26:42.950 work in that area? Yeah, absolutely. Part of 00:26:42.950 --> 00:26:45.589 four different veterans organizations, the American 00:26:45.589 --> 00:26:48.579 Legion. disabled American veterans, veterans 00:26:48.579 --> 00:26:51.680 of foreign wars, and Military Officers Association 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.980 of America. I currently serve on the local board 00:26:54.980 --> 00:26:58.559 of the Military Officers Association as a treasurer 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.960 for our board. One of our big things that we 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.500 do is we provide scholarships to the junior ROTC 00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:07.279 high school kids. We have three high schools 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.240 we have in our county that have ROTC programs, 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.279 so we give a small scholarship to each of these 00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:16.809 kids who went through the Junior ROTC program. 00:27:17.630 --> 00:27:20.450 I am also actively involved in our Veterans of 00:27:20.450 --> 00:27:23.589 Foreign Wars post that's here in the area. I 00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:25.190 served on the board for that for several years, 00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:28.769 but I backed off of that. We have a food pantry 00:27:28.769 --> 00:27:31.210 for veterans that we do every Saturday morning. 00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:34.029 Veterans can come and grab food every week. And 00:27:34.029 --> 00:27:36.049 then the other piece of that is we like to set 00:27:36.049 --> 00:27:38.299 them down if it's the first time they come. sit 00:27:38.299 --> 00:27:40.940 them down and then help them see if they have 00:27:40.940 --> 00:27:43.460 applied for their benefits or not. Then we're 00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:46.559 able to get them also to the place to be able 00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:48.559 to apply for benefits. You'd be surprised by 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.039 how many veterans have never applied for their 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:54.180 benefits. They'll complete their one enlistment, 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:57.500 leave the military, and then never apply for 00:27:57.500 --> 00:27:58.940 benefits. Again, they've got benefits on the 00:27:58.940 --> 00:28:02.160 table. Would it be compensation for injuries, 00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:05.279 service -connected injuries, or some type of 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.109 medical... or educational benefits that they 00:28:08.109 --> 00:28:09.789 have sitting on the table right there, ready 00:28:09.789 --> 00:28:13.130 for them to apply for. So that's another piece 00:28:13.130 --> 00:28:15.730 of the stuff that I try to do out there, helping 00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:18.869 veterans. Well, thank you so much. And I can 00:28:18.869 --> 00:28:22.210 only imagine, you know, for you, with the experience 00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:26.049 that you had in budgeting and forecasting the 00:28:26.049 --> 00:28:29.549 government with what you know, with veterans, 00:28:30.009 --> 00:28:32.650 what are some things that people may not understand 00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:36.750 about government finances? Right? Because we 00:28:36.750 --> 00:28:40.529 hear a lot of stuff, but we don't know. Like 00:28:40.529 --> 00:28:42.390 you've been there. Like what are some things 00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:44.809 that you think more people should be, should 00:28:44.809 --> 00:28:48.769 understand how it works? You know, for the military, 00:28:48.950 --> 00:28:53.069 it took 22 months to get a requirements analyzed 00:28:53.069 --> 00:28:57.109 and then apply a resource to a requirement and 00:28:57.109 --> 00:28:59.769 then get that turned into a pro congressional 00:28:59.769 --> 00:29:02.400 appropriations language. and then get it sent 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.339 up to Congress. Well, of course, in government 00:29:04.339 --> 00:29:06.380 and military, we don't have that profit incentive. 00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:09.759 We rely on the American taxpayer to pay our bills. 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.720 And we have an obligation, not only the military, 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.359 every department in the government, we have a 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:19.619 responsibility and a role to efficiently use 00:29:19.619 --> 00:29:21.859 those funds that are provided to us, hardworking 00:29:21.859 --> 00:29:25.359 Americans out there who are paying their taxes. 00:29:25.779 --> 00:29:28.940 We have a responsibility to use those funds in 00:29:28.940 --> 00:29:31.650 the best way possible. and of course it is the 00:29:31.650 --> 00:29:34.390 role of of course every leader and of course 00:29:34.390 --> 00:29:36.829 every finance manager like I did to make sure 00:29:36.829 --> 00:29:39.730 we are efficiently using those funds that's why 00:29:39.730 --> 00:29:42.190 I again I talked about that role as internal 00:29:42.190 --> 00:29:44.849 review officer in Iraq making sure because sometimes 00:29:44.849 --> 00:29:48.109 you know we get so focused on the mission that 00:29:48.109 --> 00:29:50.670 we forget about our fiduciary responsibilities 00:29:50.670 --> 00:29:53.269 during safeguarding of funds and then making 00:29:53.269 --> 00:29:57.659 sure we are finding the best applying our efficiencies 00:29:57.659 --> 00:30:00.299 and making sure that our funds get extended. 00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:02.400 So when you do that, your funds that you are 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.799 given are stretched out and to be able to use 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:07.880 even more. I think a lot of that has to do... 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.099 There probably seems to be a lot of magic when 00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:14.220 it comes to this. In the military, when we submit 00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:16.890 it up through... When we get done our responsibility, 00:30:16.890 --> 00:30:19.509 you know, it goes up to the Office of Management 00:30:19.509 --> 00:30:21.890 and Budget at the White House, and they do their 00:30:21.890 --> 00:30:24.430 things. And then the president has to then submit 00:30:24.430 --> 00:30:27.450 a combined budget. People don't understand this, 00:30:27.529 --> 00:30:30.329 too. Congress has to submit a budget, too. They 00:30:30.329 --> 00:30:32.410 have a budget. The Supreme Court has a budget. 00:30:32.450 --> 00:30:35.109 So they have to submit all these budgets to this 00:30:35.109 --> 00:30:37.250 one place. And then the president has to submit 00:30:37.250 --> 00:30:40.849 the entire government's budget for Congress to 00:30:40.849 --> 00:30:44.569 then to then they have their role. They debate. 00:30:44.809 --> 00:30:47.789 and they discuss and they make corrections and 00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:49.890 they send things down and say, we don't agree 00:30:49.890 --> 00:30:52.769 with this. When my time in the Pentagon, we were 00:30:52.769 --> 00:30:56.250 dealing with the Budget Control Act of 2011, 00:30:56.589 --> 00:30:58.970 which was a deal between the administration at 00:30:58.970 --> 00:31:02.009 the time and Congress that created automatic 00:31:02.009 --> 00:31:05.049 budget cuts of 10 % on the military. Because 00:31:05.049 --> 00:31:08.329 as you know, if you were to Google the US government 00:31:08.329 --> 00:31:11.319 budget right now, What are the three or four 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.619 biggest expenditures? It's going to be social 00:31:13.619 --> 00:31:16.460 security payments. It's going to be veterans 00:31:16.460 --> 00:31:20.400 expenses, and it's going to be defense. If you 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:21.940 want to really cut the budget and save money, 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.000 those are the three big programs where you're 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:26.759 going to be cutting. Do you want to cut there? 00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:29.960 Because there's going to be significant challenges 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.960 to the way the military operates and, of course, 00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:36.079 payments going out to veterans. Of course, like 00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:37.519 I said, we were dealing with this Budget Control 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:40.599 Act of 2011 was put an automatic 10 % cut. So 00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:43.220 what would happen is that, of course, the budget 00:31:43.220 --> 00:31:46.019 would be submitted and then Congress would debate. 00:31:46.299 --> 00:31:49.920 And then what they would do oftentimes is then 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:52.720 do an additional, the cut would be made and then 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:55.279 they would come back later. If there was a gap 00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:57.960 in a requirement, then they would come back and 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.519 add more money later. So that was their kind 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:02.980 of little work around with the law that they 00:32:02.980 --> 00:32:05.839 had passed. So it would maybe add some additional 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:09.819 funding to something that was missing. And at 00:32:09.819 --> 00:32:12.299 the time, a lot of the times when you're having 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.160 to do mandatory cuts, some of the easy cuts you 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:18.299 have to do, this is unfortunate, is of course, 00:32:18.579 --> 00:32:21.599 is training dollars. You maybe have to cut down 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.940 exercises that you do, which of course affects 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:27.059 readiness for your military. So if you have to 00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:29.759 cut a major exercise that your military is not 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.880 going to be quite as ready as you want it to 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:34.980 be, also, Depending upon the service, you know, 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:38.119 the army is people centric. We have people the 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:41.319 Air Force has planes and the Navy has ships So 00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:43.539 they think so the Navy thinks in terms of ship 00:32:43.539 --> 00:32:46.180 platforms Air Force thinks in terms of plane 00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:48.920 platforms and the army thinks in terms of people 00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:52.059 because that's who we are. We have infantry Brigades 00:32:52.059 --> 00:32:55.700 and armored brigades is our primary war platform 00:32:55.700 --> 00:32:57.859 So if you're gonna tell the army to cut where 00:32:57.859 --> 00:32:59.990 they're gonna cut they're gonna cut people Okay, 00:33:00.130 --> 00:33:02.230 so we're gonna lower reduce down a number of 00:33:02.230 --> 00:33:03.470 our people because that's the majority of our 00:33:03.470 --> 00:33:06.829 expense Thank you so much. That was so so it's 00:33:06.829 --> 00:33:09.930 so enlightening and I always like to ask this 00:33:09.930 --> 00:33:12.670 question to all the guests about What's the best 00:33:12.670 --> 00:33:14.430 career advice you ever received but for you? 00:33:14.490 --> 00:33:17.089 I want to know what was the best career advice 00:33:17.089 --> 00:33:20.069 you received when you were in the army? Versus 00:33:20.069 --> 00:33:23.210 when you came into the corporate world Absolutely. 00:33:23.210 --> 00:33:26.009 So I have a story to tell so when I was a lieutenant 00:33:26.009 --> 00:33:28.390 after I graduated from college and This was in 00:33:28.390 --> 00:33:31.049 the late 90s, so this is pre -911. Generally 00:33:31.049 --> 00:33:33.589 speaking, we call a peacetime environment. We 00:33:33.589 --> 00:33:36.210 do have obligations still around the world at 00:33:36.210 --> 00:33:39.309 the time. In Republic of Korea, we have Operation 00:33:39.309 --> 00:33:41.250 Southern Watch in Iraq. But generally speaking, 00:33:41.289 --> 00:33:44.809 peace, right? So in the military, when you're 00:33:44.809 --> 00:33:47.750 serving in peacetime, what are you going to do 00:33:47.750 --> 00:33:50.269 to show off who you are so you can get your promotion? 00:33:51.130 --> 00:33:54.009 There's no combat experience, there's no combat 00:33:54.009 --> 00:33:58.089 roles to build a fit in. I was stationed at Fort 00:33:58.089 --> 00:34:01.329 Riley, Kansas at the time. And again, peacetime, 00:34:01.750 --> 00:34:05.369 mostly garrison on base type of activities. One 00:34:05.369 --> 00:34:08.070 of the things that my commander, I was a lieutenant, 00:34:08.309 --> 00:34:10.570 the commander was lieutenant colonel. And one 00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:12.309 of the things that the commander came in was 00:34:12.309 --> 00:34:16.949 going to do, Fort Riley every year had a year 00:34:16.949 --> 00:34:21.539 long sports competition. And so He came in and 00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:23.820 said, we're gonna do this sports competition 00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:25.639 called the Commander's Cup. It's like 20 something 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:29.219 different sports, boxing, golf, softball. You 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:31.019 name it, basketball. You name it, we're gonna 00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:33.400 do it. This is gonna be what we're gonna do this 00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.880 year. We're gonna field a sports team and we're 00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:38.260 gonna win the Commander's Cup. And so that became 00:34:38.260 --> 00:34:41.940 our priority at the time. So if you had a soldier 00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:43.519 that was on one of these sports teams, they had 00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:45.239 to go do that. That was their primary mission 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:47.360 is go on the sports team, go win this competition. 00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:51.179 Of course, That created a lot of conflict between 00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:54.059 military things we needed to do every day and 00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:56.239 letting the soldier go off to do the sports competition. 00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:00.079 And so one of the events that we had, I approached 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:04.099 the commander as a lieutenant asking, why are 00:35:04.099 --> 00:35:08.239 we doing this? And he said to me, no one knows 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:11.840 if you have clean, orderly rooms. An orderly 00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:13.820 room is like the training room or the little 00:35:13.820 --> 00:35:16.800 office that each of the companies have. No one 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.900 knows if you have clean orderly rooms. His point 00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:20.940 was, if you want to get promoted, if you want 00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:22.679 to advance your career, you got to do something 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:24.360 big. You got to do something that people are 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.619 going to notice. And so in the peacetime army 00:35:26.619 --> 00:35:30.760 on Fort Riley, Kansas in 1999, winning a sports 00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.820 competition was a big deal. So our battalion 00:35:33.820 --> 00:35:36.860 fielded every sports competition there was for 00:35:36.860 --> 00:35:39.360 that year. Other units did not. Sometimes we 00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:41.659 won by default because no one showed up. And 00:35:41.659 --> 00:35:44.760 we won the commander's cup. He won. So he won 00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:48.039 the commander's cup. OK, so that's one thing 00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:51.440 that he did that put himself on the map, of course, 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.360 put the unit on the map, because the advice is 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.719 you've got to sometimes do something big. So 00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:58.280 one of the things that I know you talk about, 00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:01.289 I talk about it, is that If you're doing your 00:36:01.289 --> 00:36:03.969 duties every day, just doing your duties. Okay. 00:36:04.369 --> 00:36:06.610 Great. I love it. So glad you're getting your 00:36:06.610 --> 00:36:10.030 tasks done, but show me that you've got something 00:36:10.030 --> 00:36:12.849 bigger. Show me your skills. That means getting 00:36:12.849 --> 00:36:15.809 on a project team, getting out in front of the 00:36:15.809 --> 00:36:18.409 executive team, getting in front of the CEO and 00:36:18.409 --> 00:36:20.349 showing off your skills. You've got to highlight 00:36:20.349 --> 00:36:22.909 yourself, highlight what you're doing, highlight 00:36:22.909 --> 00:36:25.030 what you can do, show your potential, grow your 00:36:25.030 --> 00:36:27.130 skills. That's what he's trying to say. That's 00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:29.349 what he's trying to tell me. Do something big. 00:36:29.550 --> 00:36:32.389 So what sport did you play in that cup? Now I'm 00:36:32.389 --> 00:36:35.989 curious. I didn't play. It was mostly for the 00:36:35.989 --> 00:36:39.070 lower enlisted soldiers and stuff. We had a few 00:36:39.070 --> 00:36:40.829 officers that did, but most of the time it was 00:36:40.829 --> 00:36:44.590 for the lower enlisted soldiers. Okay. What about 00:36:44.590 --> 00:36:47.710 the best career advice you received once you 00:36:47.710 --> 00:36:51.050 joined corporate? I think again, it's continuing 00:36:51.050 --> 00:36:54.550 to grow those skills, especially on the strategic 00:36:54.550 --> 00:36:57.070 skills. I had opportunities, of course, in that 00:36:57.070 --> 00:36:59.420 first. assignment right out of the right out 00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:01.760 of the army one of the things that my boss asked 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:05.480 me and I never thought about this before is What 00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:07.739 is your learning style? Have you ever been asked 00:37:07.739 --> 00:37:10.340 that before what your learning style and the 00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:12.139 army? I was never asked that I didn't know how 00:37:12.139 --> 00:37:15.059 to I didn't know how to answer the question and 00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:18.099 so then she had to further explain and so do 00:37:18.099 --> 00:37:21.159 you are you a person who learns by doing or do 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.920 you want to read a book or Learn some read some 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.329 instructions. So I guess Ultimately, you know 00:37:26.329 --> 00:37:29.550 building on those skills and then trying to figure 00:37:29.550 --> 00:37:32.409 out what your learning style is because then 00:37:32.409 --> 00:37:35.349 then as a as a leader when you're when you're 00:37:35.349 --> 00:37:38.030 leading a team a few moments before people are 00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:41.389 complex and So they develop differently. So I 00:37:41.389 --> 00:37:43.469 would say try to figure out people's learning 00:37:43.469 --> 00:37:47.489 styles Nice. Thank you. And so what advice would 00:37:47.489 --> 00:37:50.769 you give to? The next generation of finance and 00:37:50.769 --> 00:37:53.250 accounting leaders, especially now in the age 00:37:53.250 --> 00:37:59.039 of AI fast changing economic world Geopolitical 00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.000 world like things are changing so fast in every 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.039 area What do you think can help us can help that 00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:08.000 next generation of finance and accounting leader? 00:38:08.780 --> 00:38:11.320 You gotta continue to learn go back to learning 00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.940 style gonna continue to learn I said this I think 00:38:13.940 --> 00:38:16.940 in a part episode or maybe and I don't know and 00:38:16.940 --> 00:38:19.500 then a tweet that I did I don't remember is that 00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:22.659 I believe that It's going to be at some point, 00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:24.260 we're going to have fewer and fewer individual 00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:27.059 contributors on our teams. And you're going to 00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:30.699 probably go from college graduate to team manager, 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:32.559 and you're going to not be managing people. You're 00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:36.400 going to be managing bots and AI models. And 00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:38.739 so you've got to figure out how to do that. When 00:38:38.739 --> 00:38:41.659 you're in college right now, you're an accounting 00:38:41.659 --> 00:38:45.000 student, finance student, and you're using AI. 00:38:45.019 --> 00:38:48.219 I love it. Learn AI, learn chat GPT, learn all 00:38:48.219 --> 00:38:50.030 those little models. But you're going to learn 00:38:50.030 --> 00:38:53.150 how to lead one of those models, one of those 00:38:53.150 --> 00:38:56.070 bots in the future, not just plugging something 00:38:56.070 --> 00:38:57.369 in and getting an answer, but you're going to 00:38:57.369 --> 00:39:01.269 learn how to use that effectively. Because I 00:39:01.269 --> 00:39:02.750 think that's going to be who we're going to be 00:39:02.750 --> 00:39:05.789 leading in the future. Wow, great insight. Thank 00:39:05.789 --> 00:39:08.110 you so much. So my last question, what's your 00:39:08.110 --> 00:39:12.119 favorite thing to do outside of work? The key 00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:14.440 is how much time do we really all have outside 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:17.420 of work now, right? So one of the things that 00:39:17.420 --> 00:39:19.719 I do love to do that I never have time to do 00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:23.960 is photography. I like to go take pictures. I'm 00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:26.719 in Tennessee. We have some beautiful scenery 00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:30.019 here in Tennessee, the Nashville area. Every 00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:32.079 now and then if I can grab my camera, get out 00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:35.500 there and take some pictures, that's peace. Even 00:39:35.500 --> 00:39:38.139 taking pictures, uh, going down into Nashville, 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:41.980 like even before it starts to get real busy downtown, 00:39:42.420 --> 00:39:44.739 even early in the morning before anything's happening, 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.860 like take some urban type photos, like at six 00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:51.239 in the morning is peaceful yourself. Yes. Very 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:55.059 fun. Oh, wow. Thank you so much, Stephen, for 00:39:55.059 --> 00:39:58.699 being on the show. Oh my God. Your insights, 00:39:59.139 --> 00:40:02.119 who you are. Thank you. Thank you for sharing 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:06.869 that with us. Thank you. And that's it for today's 00:40:06.869 --> 00:40:09.730 episode of The Diary of a CFO. Thank you so much 00:40:09.730 --> 00:40:12.269 for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, don't 00:40:12.269 --> 00:40:15.130 forget to like, review, subscribe, and share 00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:19.289 with others. Our website is thediaryofacfo .com. 00:40:19.550 --> 00:40:22.699 That's where you can find all the episodes. access 00:40:22.699 --> 00:40:25.699 all the guest profiles, see their bios, and their 00:40:25.699 --> 00:40:28.980 social media links. It is also the place where 00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:31.780 you can apply to be a guest on the podcast and 00:40:31.780 --> 00:40:33.800 have information about how you can sponsor the 00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:36.980 show. As always, if there is any topic you would 00:40:36.980 --> 00:40:40.340 like me to cover in the future, just email me 00:40:40.340 --> 00:40:43.820 at ask at the diary of a CFO .com. Again, the 00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:47.360 email is ask at the diary of a CFO .com. See 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:47.800 you soon.