In this episode of The Diary of a CFO Podcast, host Wassia Kamon sits down with Dave DeFreitas, retired group CFO of Caterpillar Inc., to explore the unconventional career path that took him from staff accountant to the C-suite.
Drawing on over 30 years of experience leading finance teams at one of the world's largest manufacturing companies, Dave shares why he had seven different jobs in his first six years before getting his first promotion, and how those lateral moves built the foundation for executive-level thinking.
The conversation also explores:
- The situational leadership framework that allows leaders to adapt their approach based on where each team member is in their development,
- Why understanding how a company works matters more than functional expertise,
- The critical difference between managing change and leading improvements.
This episode is for CFOs, aspiring CFOs, and senior finance leaders who want a realistic roadmap to the C-suite and the leadership skills that matter most once you get there.
Key Timestamps
01:19 Three things that made the difference to group CFO
03:25 The power of lateral moves in career progression
12:06 Situational leadership framework explained
15:41 Leading a team where most direct reports are older than you
24:04 The difference between managers and leaders
28:16 Value stream mapping and process optimization
42:09 How university curriculum needs to evolve for AI
47:37 What finance professionals must do to adapt to AI
Learn more about the podcast at https://www.thediaryofacfo.com
Explore the CFO Readiness Scorecard at https://thecfo.scoreapp.com
👉 If becoming a CFO is in your 5-year plan, get your free CFO Readiness Scorecard here:
00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast. I'm
00:00:03 --> 00:00:05 your host with Wassia Kamon. I'm a CFO with a background
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 in accounting and FP &A. And I started this show
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 to talk about what leading finance really looks
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 like and what it takes to become a modern CFO.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:15 Each week, we explore how today's top finance
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 leaders build high performing teams, partner
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 with CEOs and boards, and lead through growth
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 and transformation without burning out in the
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 process. Today, I'm super delighted to have with
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 me, Dave DeFreitas. Dave is a retired group chief
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 financial officer of Caterpillar. Inc. and a
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 retired chief revenue officer at Tata Cognitive
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 Solutions. He's a high impact leader with a unique
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 combination of expertise in business leadership
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 and financial management, directing senior business
00:00:40 --> 00:00:44 leaders and strategizing paths forward. Fun fact,
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 Dave has been my mentor for now close to three
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 years. He was well untold into that role and
00:00:49 --> 00:00:51 he has been a member of our personal board of
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 directors ever since. Super excited to have you
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56 here. Welcome to the show, Dave. Thank you. It's
00:00:56 --> 00:00:59 great to be here. Awesome. I just want to dive
00:00:59 --> 00:01:02 in straight because you spent over 30 years at
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 Caterpillar and you ended up as group CFO. When
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08 you look back, what are three things you will
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 say really made the difference for you to getting
00:01:11 --> 00:01:15 to that level? Yeah, I would say first and foremost,
00:01:16 --> 00:01:21 it was getting excited about what I do. When
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 you think about finance, you think about accounting,
00:01:24 --> 00:01:28 some people kind of, oh, you really have got
00:01:28 --> 00:01:33 to do that for 40 years and then retire and I'm
00:01:33 --> 00:01:37 going to audit a company or in some cases, I'm
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 going to do debits and credits, but it's... Find
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 something to get excited about and embrace it
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 and go do it. And frankly, if you can't find
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 something to get excited about within the profession,
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 then quit and go find something you can get excited
00:01:51 --> 00:01:56 about. The other thing that as I started to go
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 up the ladder at Caterpillar is I would tell
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 some of my peers, if you have people in your
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 group that can't get excited about your goals,
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 your objectives and what you're trying to accomplish,
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 then get them transferred. And I don't mean to
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 another department within your company, get them
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13 transferred to your competition because they'll
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 drain the life right out of them. Nice strategy.
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 But that's kind of the first thing is getting
00:02:19 --> 00:02:24 excited. The second thing is know the people
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 around you and become a sponge for what they're
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 doing as well. Understand. how your company works
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 and why it works the way it does. Because you
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 will become much more valuable when you're answering
00:02:38 --> 00:02:43 questions and doing your work as you bring those
00:02:43 --> 00:02:46 answers and bring that work back to others because
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 you'll be able to think about the bigger picture
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 of how it all fits in and provide more value
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 to the overall organization. And probably the
00:02:55 --> 00:03:02 last thing is Don't fear the lateral move because
00:03:02 --> 00:03:06 that is a great way that as long as you're continuing
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 to get new experiences, you're continuing to
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 get good performance reviews, it'll be the way
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 that you can learn about how that company works
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 and why it works the way it does, and that's
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 where you can really become more valuable. Wow.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 Thank you so much for sharing. And on the last
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 one, when you said, don't be afraid of lateral
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 move, I had the lateral move too in my career,
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 but I'm curious to hear what are some of the
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 lateral moves you had at Caterpillar and how
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 do you think it helped you, you know, become
00:03:33 --> 00:03:37 eventually group CFO? So that's a great question.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:42 I had a mentor at Caterpillar that frankly, he
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 could have just kept everybody in their jobs,
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 made them functional experts at what they were
00:03:48 --> 00:03:53 doing and could have coasted. But instead, every
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 six months to two years, depending on the job
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58 and how long it took for the individual to learn
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 what they needed to learn, he would move everybody
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 so that they would get rotational experience.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 And so in my first six years at Caterpillar,
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 I had seven different jobs before I got my first
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 promotion. Wow. Then after that, the next six
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 years, I went up 10 levels. and got to Group
00:04:16 --> 00:04:20 CFO. And so what that did for me, I mean, they
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 were roles like I started in internal auditing.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:27 Then I moved into legal entity accounting focused
00:04:27 --> 00:04:32 on inventory management. Later I went into profit
00:04:32 --> 00:04:35 and loss statement accounting. When we first
00:04:35 --> 00:04:38 moved from cost centers to profit centers, I
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 basically coordinated the profit and loss statement
00:04:41 --> 00:04:45 for about a $2 billion entity at that time. Then
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 I went into budgeting and coordinated the budget
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 across that entire entity. Then I moved into
00:04:51 --> 00:04:55 cost accounting. And from those positions, I
00:04:55 --> 00:04:59 learned so much about everything from manufacturing
00:04:59 --> 00:05:05 to engineering to accounting to the whole operations
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 that later, interestingly enough, when I went
00:05:08 --> 00:05:15 to Leicester, England and was the CFO for one
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 of Caterpillar's product lines, one of the guys
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 that I had worked with and had seen me in all
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 of those roles at the Aurora manufacturing facility
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 for Caterpillar, he was now the managing director
00:05:27 --> 00:05:31 of all of the operations of Caterpillar UK. And
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 when he was looking for somebody to lead that
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 entire group, he said, Dave, I think I want you.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 Wow. And I love to tell this story because it
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 was a two level promotion. And I said, OK, sure,
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 no problem. I'll do that. You know, what's it
00:05:45 --> 00:05:49 involved? Oh, 650 people, three manufacturing
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 facilities across the United Kingdom. You're
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 going to have engineering, design control, manufacturing
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 and marketing responsibilities, and the product's
00:05:57 --> 00:05:58 going to be sole sourced out of Leicester, England.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 And I said, great, two level promotion, sign
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 me up for it. And after everybody left the room,
00:06:04 --> 00:06:05 you know, everybody congratulated me. I closed
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 the door and I turned to my boss and I said,
00:06:08 --> 00:06:12 are you nuts? What do I know about engineering
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 and marketing? And he said, Dave, you had the
00:06:15 --> 00:06:19 same mentor I did. You know how to lead. You
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 know how to manage people. You know how to lead
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 people. And you don't have to be an expert in,
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 say, engineering. You have an engineering manager
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 that knows that stuff. But what they do is sometimes
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 they get lost. They can't see the forest for
00:06:33 --> 00:06:37 all the trees. you have the ability because you
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 see, you know how the company works, you know
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 why it works the way it does, to step back with
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 them and say, let's think about this from the
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 bigger picture. And let's think about where we're
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 going. In other words, what does done look like?
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 And if we have the same picture of what done
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 looks like, now we can start to plot the route
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 we're going to take to get to that destination.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 And when we start to go astray, Dave, you can
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 bring them back to get them back on route. And
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 that really was those jobs that we talked about.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 And later on, I'll probably delve into one or
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 two of those jobs at the staff level that was
00:07:14 --> 00:07:17 most important to that journey. But it gave me
00:07:17 --> 00:07:20 such a perspective that, yes, it really allowed
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 me to have success. And that was the pinnacle
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 job when I got three years out of accounting
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 for good behavior, managing this entire pipeline,
00:07:29 --> 00:07:33 that ultimately gave me the potential and the
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35 ability to become a divisional CFO and later
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 a group CFO. And really it put me in a position
00:07:39 --> 00:07:44 where some of my bosses at that time really called
00:07:44 --> 00:07:48 me the most unique CFO or divisional and then
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 later group CFO that there was at Caterpillar
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 because of that business experience I had beyond
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 just finance and accounting. That's awesome.
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 And I hear a lot of people now, you know, they
00:07:58 --> 00:08:02 have like COFO title, COO and CFO, and there's
00:08:02 --> 00:08:05 definitely value in, you know, getting that operations,
00:08:05 --> 00:08:07 you know, background and experience. So I'm curious
00:08:07 --> 00:08:11 as you moved from accounting outside to operations,
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 what are some things that had to change maybe
00:08:14 --> 00:08:18 in your mindset or in your habits? Well, for
00:08:18 --> 00:08:22 starters, you know, as an accountant, it used
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 to be, okay, Cut cost. I mean, when I opened
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 my wallet, OK, there were cobwebs in there because
00:08:28 --> 00:08:30 it was like the dollar bills that were in there.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 They'd been in there for decades. I was not going
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 to pull those out and spend them on anything.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 But I got to tell you, your perspective changes
00:08:38 --> 00:08:42 when you're sitting across from a farmer in his
00:08:42 --> 00:08:46 farmhouse, in his conservatory in England, and
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 he's serving you lemonade. But while he's serving
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 you lemonade, he's looking at you saying, do
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 you realize your product? that I bought from
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 your company failed for me in the field and I
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 was not able to bring in my harvest, my bales
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 of hay, for example, to feed my animals in a
00:09:02 --> 00:09:06 timely and effective manner. And he said the
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 failure, when he told me about it, it was actually
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 one of the items that we had under warranty that
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 we were thinking about doing a recall on and
00:09:14 --> 00:09:17 proactively fixing as opposed to waiting until
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 they failed. And it caused me to think, wait
00:09:20 --> 00:09:22 a minute. This is no longer about optimizing
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26 the expense. It's about satisfying the customer.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 No, delighting the customer to the point they
00:09:30 --> 00:09:34 want to come back and buy from me and rebuy from
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 me because ultimately I'm not going to maximize
00:09:37 --> 00:09:42 my sales, my margin, my profitability. I want
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 to optimize it. And when I say optimize it, that
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 ultimately leads to the maximum you're going
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 to get. You may spend some dollars. But the old
00:09:50 --> 00:09:52 saying, you got to spend money to make money.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 Well, it really is true. And that was one of
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 the things I had to change my perspective. It
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 wasn't just about the lowest cost number. It
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 was about, hey, what does Dunn look like? The
00:10:03 --> 00:10:07 perfectly satisfied customer that's repeat buying
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 and he's out there telling all of his friends,
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 his neighbors, his even competitors, my goodness,
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 this is my secret sauce. It's this product that
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 I'm buying from Dave at Caterpillar. And that
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 spending the money in the right places to go
00:10:22 --> 00:10:26 do that was a mindset change for me. I've got
00:10:26 --> 00:10:30 several more, one of which is sometimes there's
00:10:30 --> 00:10:34 just no good substitute for rolling up your sleeves
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 and jumping in and being a part of the solution.
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 You couldn't just come in and delegate and go,
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 guys, we got a problem. You guys are the experts.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 Go do it. Sometimes you can do that. but you
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 have to know how to lead. I learned how to lead
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 through situational leadership, which means sometimes
00:10:51 --> 00:10:54 I need to get in with that group. roll up my
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 sleeves, brainstorm with them, and help lead
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 them to the solution. Again, they're the experts,
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 but sometimes they just need somebody to come
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 in and help them put the pieces together. That
00:11:05 --> 00:11:09 was a lot different for me than it was of just
00:11:09 --> 00:11:11 being an accountant and saying, okay, what system
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 am I going to use to close the books and how
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 can I be most efficient in that? Yeah, getting
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 really into, like you said, rolling your sleeves
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 and working with your team. Thank you for sharing
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 that, but there's also something, like if I remember
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 right, you became a divisional CFOs in your thirties
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 and you were leading teams of hundreds of people.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:36 So in that process, not just going from operations,
00:11:36 --> 00:11:38 from accounting to operations back to finance,
00:11:38 --> 00:11:41 but going to finance at such a high level, at
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 such a young age, like what did you also have
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 to change to lead effectively? Well, and again,
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 it comes back to that situation of leadership.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:54 When I first came into the divisional CFO role,
00:11:54 --> 00:12:00 I was 35 years old and I had six direct reports.
00:12:00 --> 00:12:04 Now this organization was about 150 people. And
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 so I had staff level reporting to supervisors,
00:12:08 --> 00:12:10 reporting to division managers, reporting to
00:12:10 --> 00:12:15 then ultimately to me. And four of the six of
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 them were 60 years of age or older. And one of
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 them actually came in for our first meeting and
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 he had known me and I'd been with the company
00:12:24 --> 00:12:29 then about 15 years or so. And I might have been
00:12:29 --> 00:12:33 about, probably within 13 years. So he came into
00:12:33 --> 00:12:39 me and he did this. He said, I can do this. Yeah,
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 I can make this work. I'm going to, I'm going
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 to do this. And then he looked up at me and I
00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 said, Dave, his name was Dave also. I said, what
00:12:48 --> 00:12:51 was that all about? And he said, you know, Dave,
00:12:51 --> 00:12:55 I've worked for people younger than me. Um, you
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 know, I have in the past, uh, I'm going to be
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 working for you now. And in the future, I'll
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 probably work for others that are younger than
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 me, but I've just never worked for anybody younger
00:13:04 --> 00:13:10 than my son. And so. Right then I knew, okay,
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 how am I gonna lead somebody like this who knew
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 me the day I walked in the door as a staff level
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 accountant? He's in pricing, parts pricing. He's
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 been doing that job for 15 years and he'd been
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 at Caterpillar for over 35 years. And now I've
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 got to lead him with an attitude like that. Well,
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 guess what? So situational leadership, I said,
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 I need to take him to zone four. And zone four
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 says, You know, you work with him, you don't
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 abandon him, you agree upon the objectives, but
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 ultimately you get out of his way. He knew more
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 about parts pricing than I ever will or ever
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 would for that matter back then. And so I said
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 to him, I said, Dave, what do you need? And he
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 said, I need you to stay out of my way. I know
00:13:53 --> 00:13:55 what I'm doing. I can get the job done. I've
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 been doing it for years and just let me do my
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 job. I said, okay, great. But I'm going to meet
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 with you on a regular basis. We've agreed upon
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 the goals. And I want to make sure if there are
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 any obstacles or anything there that I'm helping
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 you remove them." And he said, that's great.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 That's what I need. And he said, but you won't
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 do that. And the reason you won't do that is
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17 because you're an accountant. And I've worked
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 for accountants before, and they get busy with
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 debits and credits and closing the books. And
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 oh, wait, don't forget about your budgets. You
00:14:26 --> 00:14:27 know, you got to roll those up. Oh, they're so
00:14:27 --> 00:14:31 important. And whenever I need my boss, he's
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 never there. And so you won't be either. So I
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36 remembered that. And on the rare occasion where
00:14:36 --> 00:14:39 he needed me to be in his corner when somebody
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42 was trying to make a decision that was not very
00:14:42 --> 00:14:45 good and he knew it and I knew it, even if it
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 was up to the CEO of the company, I was there
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52 with him to support him. And you know, five years
00:14:52 --> 00:14:56 after he retired, he was playing in a band and
00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 a group of people that either worked for him
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 or worked with him. about 20, 25 of us came out
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 to listen to him play. And at a break, he came
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 over, big smile on his face, and he put his arm
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 around me in front of everybody else. You did
00:15:10 --> 00:15:11 this with nobody else. He just walked over to
00:15:11 --> 00:15:13 me and he goes, I just wanted to let you know,
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 in all my years at Caterpillar, you're the best
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 boss I ever had. Now, the reason I tell that
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 story is not because I was a good leader, but
00:15:22 --> 00:15:26 because when you embrace a concept called situational
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 leadership, it really works. It makes a difference.
00:15:30 --> 00:15:34 and it's just in a very simplified, summarized
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 way, you have to understand where the person's
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 at in their journey. Don't judge others entirely
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 by the years and yardstick of your own experience.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 If you've got a new employee, they're like a
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 dog with a bone. They're excited, they're enthused,
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 but they don't necessarily know what to do. So
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 you have to be more directive in your approach
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 and less coaching. in nature. Here's what I want
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 you to do. Here are the 10 steps. Once you get
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 that done, come back and see me. When you get
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 to zone two, you've got somebody that maybe has
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 been on the job six, nine months, and they're
00:16:06 --> 00:16:11 starting to go, is this it? Is this all I'm going
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 to be doing for the next 40 years? By the way,
00:16:14 --> 00:16:18 I don't know if I'm job failing or not. I don't
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 think I'm learning anything. That's where you
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 can, you still have to be fairly directive, but
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 you have to step back and do more coaching and
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27 say, no, no, you know, you're doing fine. You
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 really are. Think about pause for a moment and
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 think about where you were six to nine months
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 ago. You didn't even know where the bathrooms
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 were. You know how this works. You know how that
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 works. You understand the 10 steps you're supposed
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 to be working on. So it's more a combination,
00:16:42 --> 00:16:46 but when they get to zone three, it's one where
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 You get a new project, and you bring in the employee,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 and they say, great, boss, what do you want me
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 to do? And that's where you go, no, I want you
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 to tell me what you think we should do. Well,
00:16:56 --> 00:16:59 boss, I don't know how to do that. I can't do
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 that. Sure you can. You've done six other projects
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 in the last two years that are very similar to
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 this. So go out, think about those projects,
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09 how they relate to this one, come back to me
00:17:09 --> 00:17:11 with a plan, and we'll talk about it together,
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 and we'll agree upon it. Now, it would have been
00:17:14 --> 00:17:17 easy for me in that situation to do the plan
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 and tell them exactly what to do. It took more
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 time this way, but it built confidence in that
00:17:22 --> 00:17:26 employee the next time knew exactly what to do.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 And it builds them into then zone four, which
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 is they know as much or more about it than I
00:17:31 --> 00:17:33 do. And I can just let them get out of the way
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 and go do it. That situational leadership. And
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 if you build like that, then you get the best
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 staff possible. Wow. Thank you so much for this
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 great breakdown of what situational leadership
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 is. So you talked about zone one, they're brand
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50 new and that's when you need to be more directive.
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 And then as you move to zone two and three, you
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 get more into the coaching and less directive.
00:17:57 --> 00:17:58 But what about zone four? I think that's where
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 your former employees was in. So with zone four,
00:18:02 --> 00:18:07 that's heavily in delegation. And so there it's...
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 If you have a project or if there are even just
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 common processes you agree upon, what are the
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16 objectives? Again, let's get a clear picture
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 together, the same picture in our mind of what
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 done looks like. And I'll give you an example.
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 A lot of companies talk about finance transformation.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 I hate finance transformation and here's why.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 Because what's it mean? It means if there are
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 100 people in an audience, there are 100 different
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 pictures in their minds of what transformation
00:18:36 --> 00:18:40 means. It's okay to say transformation, but you
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 have to follow it with transformation at our
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45 company means moving from this XYZ system to
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 this new ABC system, and it also means taking
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 a process that used to take two days and applying
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 artificial intelligence to get it down to two
00:18:53 --> 00:18:57 minutes or whatever. But everybody then has the
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 same picture in their mind. It's like if I said
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 to you, hey, we're going to go watch a football
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 game, and we're going to do it in September.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 And that's all I tell you. What are the odds
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 we're going to end up at Soldier Field watching
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 the Chicago Bears play their home opener at 12
00:19:14 --> 00:19:18 noon getting a hot dog and a beer? It won't happen.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:22 But if I say... Hey, we're gonna go see a football
00:19:22 --> 00:19:23 game. It's gonna be the Bears. It's gonna be
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 on September 12th. It's gonna be at 12 noon.
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 And we're gonna get a hot dog and a beer together
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30 and just have a great afternoon. The odds are
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 pretty good that you and I have the exact same
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 picture in our mind of what done looks like.
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 And you may take a train, I may take a plane,
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 whatever, may take a car. We may take different
00:19:40 --> 00:19:44 routes, but at least we have the same endpoint
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 in mind. So with that zone four, you get everybody
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 on the same wavelength. And then you say, hey,
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 you don't even have to necessarily go over the
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 plan with them of how they're going to do it.
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 They've driven that route to that destination
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 so many times. You just say, now that we know
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 we're going to Chicago, hey, Joe, Bob, whoever,
00:20:05 --> 00:20:09 go get us there. And if you have a problem along
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 the way, or you have a breakdown, you got a flat
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13 tire, call me. I'll be glad to roll up my sleeves
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 and help you fix the flat tire and help you get
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 there. I'll remove any obstacle you got. I'm
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 just going to let you drive the car. Wow. This
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 is, this is so impactful. Thank you so much for
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 sharing. I'm curious to hear, like, how did you
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 first learn about situational leadership? Is
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 it something that you learned the hard way? Was
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 it a training? Because I'm always curious because
00:20:35 --> 00:20:39 I realize now that, you know, as a CFO, as any
00:20:39 --> 00:20:41 financier, once you pass manager, you're dealing
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 more with people than with numbers. Like 99 %
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 of what you do is leadership and leading people.
00:20:48 --> 00:20:52 So I'm always, I really like this kind of frameworks
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 that can help. So curious to hear how the concept
00:20:55 --> 00:21:01 probably evolved for you. Well, early on, at
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03 Caterpillar when this is way back in the late
00:21:03 --> 00:21:07 80s and early 90s. When they identified people
00:21:07 --> 00:21:11 as potential leaders of other people, they had
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 a series of training courses. And you started
00:21:13 --> 00:21:16 with something called social styles, where you
00:21:16 --> 00:21:20 really went in and you learned to assess other
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 people. And for example, I am an amiable driver.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:28 Driver is my core or foundational strength or
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 social style, if you will. The amiable part of
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 it is kind of a subset. That basically means
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 that I'm very task oriented and I am, if you
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 got a list of things to do, I love to check off
00:21:39 --> 00:21:43 the boxes, get them done and move on. The amiable
00:21:43 --> 00:21:49 is, but I tend to have the ability to also work
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 with people along the way. There are multiple
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 other styles. Some people are very into what
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 they call woo. Or in other words, they're very
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 good with other people. It's all about how they
00:22:00 --> 00:22:03 feel and how the other people feel. And they're
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 not very task -orient. So they're not all about
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 getting the task done as fast and efficiently
00:22:08 --> 00:22:10 as possible. So those two social styles, just
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 as an example, clash. Because I'm over there
00:22:13 --> 00:22:14 constantly going, come on, let's go, let's get
00:22:14 --> 00:22:19 it done, let's go. And for you, if you were more
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 of a woo type... person, you might be, yeah,
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 we'll get there, okay? But really, but how you
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 feeling? You know what, and let's talk a little
00:22:27 --> 00:22:29 bit about the situation. How did you feel when
00:22:29 --> 00:22:32 this project came out with this answer and this
00:22:32 --> 00:22:36 analysis? Who cares? Let's move on. When you
00:22:36 --> 00:22:39 do that, that's step one. Step two was another
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41 training program, and it was called Situational
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43 Leadership. And it was external training packages
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 that Caterpillar purchased at the time and took
00:22:46 --> 00:22:49 us through. But it really did allow you to learn
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 the difference between being a manager and being
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 a leader. So many people think they are leaders,
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 but in reality, managers maintain the status
00:22:58 --> 00:23:02 quo. Leaders set bold but achievable goals. They
00:23:02 --> 00:23:06 innovate. Okay. Managers use their titles and
00:23:06 --> 00:23:10 position authority. Leaders leverage their reputation
00:23:10 --> 00:23:13 and people want to follow them because they're
00:23:13 --> 00:23:16 inspired by that leader to want to do the thing
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 that has to get done as much or more than the
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 leader does. So it takes on a life of its own
00:23:21 --> 00:23:25 and people just go to the end destination. Managers
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 do things right, leaders do the right thing.
00:23:29 --> 00:23:32 Managers also share minimal information where
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 leaders share absolutely as much as they can.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:41 And managers coach the team as it exists. And
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44 this actually came from the head coach of Bradley
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 University and their men's basketball team. But
00:23:47 --> 00:23:50 he says, look, I don't coach the players that
00:23:50 --> 00:23:52 I have. And I don't coach the team that I have.
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 I coach, I assess their potential, and then I
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 coach the players. for the players that they
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 can be at the peak of their potential. And I
00:24:01 --> 00:24:05 coach the team at that same way. So I push them
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 to accomplish and achieve more than they even
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 thought they could possibly do. And my last one
00:24:11 --> 00:24:15 is managers manage change, change management.
00:24:16 --> 00:24:20 I hate it. Okay. Leaders lead improvements. Okay.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 So you can do change leadership or you can do
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 change management and think about this. What
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 do people do when you talk about change? They
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 go, change? You want me to change? Well, no,
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 no, no, no. See, what I'm doing is fine. I like
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 what I'm doing. I understand it. Now, Wasee over
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 here, she's got some problems. Maybe you should
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 go work on her stuff because she probably needs
00:24:43 --> 00:24:45 to change. Just leave me alone and I'm doing
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 good. But if I were to come forward and say,
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 if there were a way that you could improve the
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 way you do your work, you probably want to know
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 about it, wouldn't you? Now, all of a sudden,
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58 the body language is, well, wait a minute. You
00:24:58 --> 00:25:02 mean you can help me? free up some of my time
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 from the mundane things that I don't like to
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 do that don't add much value and give me more
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 time to do the things I do like to do where I
00:25:09 --> 00:25:11 can add more value. Well, tell me more. What
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 do I need to do? That's change leadership and
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 it's just one of the six ingredient recipe I've
00:25:16 --> 00:25:20 got on leading change or sorry leading improvements
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 as opposed to managing a change. But the first
00:25:22 --> 00:25:26 step is really getting in and talking about leading
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 and improvement with the employees. Wow. And
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 so for you, when you think about the difference
00:25:31 --> 00:25:35 between a manager and the leader, love that definition.
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 And then you go to the next step and think about
00:25:38 --> 00:25:42 how do you manage change versus leading the change,
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 leading the improvement? What would you say are
00:25:45 --> 00:25:47 some of the steps? Because right now, the big
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50 change in many organizations is bringing AI,
00:25:50 --> 00:25:54 right? What do you think is happening? Like if
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 people are just seeing AI as managing a change
00:25:58 --> 00:26:03 versus leading improvements. So the short answer
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 to that as you lead an improvement, take AI.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:11 Um, so I, and, and I can even use an example.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:14 I at one point in time had accounts payable in
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 my organization and I had a group of employees
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 that all of them at the staff level that were
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 running the process of accounts payable were
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 in their late 50s early 60s and they were happy
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 with what they were doing and multiple leaders
00:26:28 --> 00:26:32 before me had tried to get them to change their
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 processes put in new technologies and things
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 of that sort and they just wouldn't do it I mean
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 they fought it and the whole what not me I mean
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 you know go talk with Mary she's got a problem
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 but me I'm fine so I came in a little differently
00:26:46 --> 00:26:50 because with change leadership I said, OK, talk
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 to me about your process. So we did value stream
00:26:52 --> 00:26:55 mapping. And with each step in the process, not
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 only did we cost it using activity -based costing
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 applied to the office processes, but we then
00:27:01 --> 00:27:03 said, what's the value of each step? And by putting
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 a value on it, all of a sudden, their pain came
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 out. They talked about, look, we actually have
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 to take an invoice. from a supplier and manually
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 type it into one system. And because the one
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 system won't talk to the other system, we have
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19 to manually type it in. We hate doing that. It's
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 all of our time. And we make mistakes because
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 we're daydreaming about other time out. So now
00:27:25 --> 00:27:29 if I'm going to put in AI or some kind of a change
00:27:29 --> 00:27:32 to their process, while I'm under the hood fixing
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 the engine, I'm going to make sure I address
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 that. Nice. So now all of a sudden these employees
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 hear, wait a minute. You mean you're going to
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44 take away me having to enter the same invoice
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 in two systems? And I said, yes. But I'm going
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 to go one step farther. And we actually did this
00:27:50 --> 00:27:55 at the time with robotic process automation and
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 with bots. And we said, not only am I going to
00:27:58 --> 00:27:59 make it so you don't have to enter it in two
00:27:59 --> 00:28:01 different systems manually, but I'm going to
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03 make it so you don't even have to enter it in
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 the first system. We're going to let the bot
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08 read the invoice and put it in the system for
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 you. So all you have to do is go in and check
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 it and then help process it from that point forward
00:28:13 --> 00:28:17 within our value stream mapping processing that
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 we did. And all of a sudden, they were on board.
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 They were ready to go because they hated doing
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 certain things. And I said, yeah, I'm going to
00:28:24 --> 00:28:26 change your entire process. But when I do, I'm
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29 going to fix that problem. Now I got it. Because
00:28:29 --> 00:28:34 now they want to do that improvement as much
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 or more than I did. So that's a key part of getting
00:28:37 --> 00:28:42 this thing done within any kind of improvement
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45 that you want to make. Yeah, value stream processing.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:49 I know you explained that to me when the bus
00:28:49 --> 00:28:53 at a conference. So why don't you give our listeners
00:28:53 --> 00:28:57 like a 101 of what it really is and what is the
00:28:57 --> 00:29:02 value of value. Yeah, so some people would say,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 look, aren't you just talking about process mapping?
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 Well, not exactly. I mean, it starts with a process
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 map. It says, okay, to do this office process,
00:29:13 --> 00:29:15 here's step one, step two, step three, step four,
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 step five, however many steps there are, break
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 them down into what are the manageable chunks.
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 Think of it like an assembly line and think about
00:29:23 --> 00:29:26 it this way. If you have 10 people in your group,
00:29:26 --> 00:29:30 if you've got two people that are doing step
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 one, four people that are doing step two, one
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 person that's doing step three, et cetera, then
00:29:36 --> 00:29:40 how long does it take for those two people to
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 do step number one? How long does it take for
00:29:42 --> 00:29:45 them to do step number two? What is the wage
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 and benefit rate? So you cost it out, and then
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 next to it, you come along, and if there is a
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 step that's actually generating a revenue that
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 you're billing a customer, there's your revenue.
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 Are you getting more in revenue than the cost
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 to do that step? Yes or no? That's the first
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 question. If you can't put a dollar amount on
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 the revenue you're bringing in, then use a Six
00:30:07 --> 00:30:11 Sigma style approach of maybe $139 to actually
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 say, look, step number one is hugely valuable
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 because it feeds six other groups the information
00:30:17 --> 00:30:20 they need or whatever. Okay, that's going to
00:30:20 --> 00:30:22 get a nine. And you go through, and once you're
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 done with that, you take it and you evaluate
00:30:25 --> 00:30:28 each step in the process. And you say, step number
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 one is something that is of high value and low
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 cost. All right? You know what? Not only is it
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 good that we're doing that, but we gotta see
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 if we can do more of it. Because I'm getting
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42 a favorable margin out of it. Step number two,
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 or another step in the process, is high value.
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 We're really good at it. It's a core competency.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 But you know what? It's high cost. It's costing
00:30:51 --> 00:30:55 us so much to do it that it's equal to or maybe
00:30:55 --> 00:30:59 more cost than the value. So what can we do within
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01 that process? Apply technology, whatever it may
00:31:01 --> 00:31:04 be to reduce the cost because you want to keep
00:31:04 --> 00:31:10 it. The next one is it is low value, but it's
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 low cost. And in that case, you know, it's probably
00:31:13 --> 00:31:17 a distraction for your organization. outsource
00:31:17 --> 00:31:19 it. There's somebody out there who probably does
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22 it better. I'll give you an example. Caterpillar
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25 years ago, they used to hire people that actually
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 did the janitorial services and it was noise
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 because if The toilets weren't clean one day
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 and all of a sudden half of the manufacturing
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 facility where I was working got all in a lather
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 about we gotta go talk to the leaders and department
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 heads and figure out how to get more toilet paper
00:31:41 --> 00:31:43 in the bathrooms. They said this is distracting
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 us from designing, manufacturing, and marketing
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 the best products in the world. Have another
00:31:48 --> 00:31:51 service like a service master or whoever come
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 in and do that for us. If there's a problem,
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 we call them up and go fix it. So it's no longer
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 a distraction. And the last type is it's low
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 value and it's high cost. Try to find a way to
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 just stop doing that. Do we even need to do that
00:32:05 --> 00:32:09 step anymore? If you absolutely have to do it,
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 then find some way to significantly streamline
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 it or do it as little or as few a times as possible.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:19 And those are the four main quadrants. And once
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22 you break it down, now you can attack each You
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 can find out which step is the critical process,
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 critical step within your process, and then tackle
00:32:29 --> 00:32:32 it. And once you get done, now you can rebalance
00:32:32 --> 00:32:34 your assembly line, because what you don't want
00:32:34 --> 00:32:38 to do is have step one take two hours to do.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 The person or people in step two, maybe it only
00:32:42 --> 00:32:44 takes 10 minutes. So when they get done with
00:32:44 --> 00:32:47 theirs, they go, I got an hour and 50 minutes
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 to wait for the group in step one to get me what
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 I need to do step two. then take some of the
00:32:53 --> 00:32:56 things that the people in step one are doing
00:32:56 --> 00:32:58 and shift it and have the people in step two
00:32:58 --> 00:33:01 do it. So now each step is balanced at about
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04 30 minutes a piece. So when the people in step
00:33:04 --> 00:33:06 two are just finishing things up, the people
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 in step one are just getting done and feeding
00:33:08 --> 00:33:12 them their output, which becomes step two's input.
00:33:12 --> 00:33:16 Now you've got a fully streamlined process and
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 you've got the line rebalanced. That's when you
00:33:18 --> 00:33:22 should also step back and say, hey, Why am I
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 doing what I'm doing where I'm doing it today?
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 So now you can think about world sourcing and
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 I give you an example a caterpillar They would
00:33:32 --> 00:33:35 have owners manuals, you know parts books things
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 of that sort in okay. They're virtual now They're
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 up in in the cloud. But the point is you start
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 in English because that's You know, Caterpillar
00:33:44 --> 00:33:47 was an American company. Over time, they started
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49 to sell into other countries and they needed
00:33:49 --> 00:33:53 to translate into French, German, Spanish, whatever.
00:33:53 --> 00:33:57 So they would hire people where their world headquarters
00:33:57 --> 00:33:59 was at that time in Peoria, Illinois to do the
00:33:59 --> 00:34:02 translations. Wake up one day and now they're
00:34:02 --> 00:34:06 a global company and you're like, why do we translate
00:34:06 --> 00:34:09 all of the literature that we have in Peoria,
00:34:09 --> 00:34:12 Illinois? There are a billion people in China.
00:34:13 --> 00:34:16 There are probably more people in China that
00:34:16 --> 00:34:18 speak Mandarin that also speak English than there
00:34:18 --> 00:34:21 are in Peoria, Illinois. So maybe we should do
00:34:21 --> 00:34:25 the main parts book in English in Peoria and
00:34:25 --> 00:34:28 we have a group of people in China, in France,
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 in Germany, etc. that do the translations into
00:34:30 --> 00:34:34 the local languages. It seems to be more cost
00:34:34 --> 00:34:37 -effective and more efficient. You streamline
00:34:37 --> 00:34:40 the process, you rebalance the line, then you
00:34:40 --> 00:34:42 look at why are we doing what we're doing it
00:34:42 --> 00:34:44 today? The reason Caterpillar was is they were
00:34:44 --> 00:34:47 a U .S. company that added France. And then a
00:34:47 --> 00:34:50 few years later, added Germany. And so all of
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 a sudden, it made sense at the time to just add
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 one or two people for a new country. But you
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 would have never organized that way initially
00:34:58 --> 00:35:02 if you said, bang, go from just a U .S. company
00:35:02 --> 00:35:06 to global company overnight. Wow. Thank you so
00:35:06 --> 00:35:08 much for sharing these great frameworks. And
00:35:08 --> 00:35:11 I think they're so relevant to what we seeing
00:35:11 --> 00:35:14 now with AI. Um, if people were using your process,
00:35:14 --> 00:35:17 right? Whether it's value stream processing or,
00:35:17 --> 00:35:20 and trying to understand where to go next, it
00:35:20 --> 00:35:23 would be great. But now what we seeing is we
00:35:23 --> 00:35:26 just want AI. The push is for AI, whatever AI
00:35:26 --> 00:35:29 like is like ketchup on the side. So what would
00:35:29 --> 00:35:31 you say are some of the things that you know,
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 CFO and finance leaders needs to be aware of,
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37 you know, whether it's mistakes to avoid or how
00:35:37 --> 00:35:40 can they prepare their team to implement AI the
00:35:40 --> 00:35:47 right way? So, you know, AI is a part of an overall
00:35:47 --> 00:35:51 solution. It's, you know, I used to have a friend
00:35:51 --> 00:35:53 who actually started in accounting and later
00:35:53 --> 00:35:56 branched off into IT at Caterpillar and became
00:35:56 --> 00:35:59 a CIO for one of the divisions. And when we started
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02 talking about AI and we started talking about
00:36:02 --> 00:36:05 robotic process automation because it's just
00:36:05 --> 00:36:09 the next stage in the evolution of technology
00:36:09 --> 00:36:12 and automation. Think about the spreadsheet.
00:36:12 --> 00:36:16 The spreadsheet finally replaced what my dad
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18 had when he was in accounting at Caterpillar,
00:36:18 --> 00:36:21 a 22 -column manual. They used to take his pen
00:36:21 --> 00:36:24 and fill it in with numbers and use the old crank
00:36:24 --> 00:36:27 adding machine. So this is just the next stage.
00:36:27 --> 00:36:32 It's not the solution. What I would say is, first
00:36:32 --> 00:36:37 of all, find places where AI can augment the
00:36:37 --> 00:36:41 human. And what I mean by that is, by itself,
00:36:41 --> 00:36:43 if the human doesn't know the right questions
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45 to ask, if they don't know how the business works,
00:36:46 --> 00:36:48 why it works the way it does, AI is going to
00:36:48 --> 00:36:50 come back with wrong answers. So, and everybody
00:36:50 --> 00:36:53 knows you can't just apply it across the board.
00:36:53 --> 00:36:57 It's... it'll make mistakes. But if you apply
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 it in the right spot and in your correct processes,
00:37:00 --> 00:37:03 it will make the human more efficient. And I'll
00:37:03 --> 00:37:05 give you an example of a way to do that in a
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08 moment. It was done by a group of college students
00:37:08 --> 00:37:12 and saved a company hundreds of thousands of
00:37:12 --> 00:37:16 dollars a year. But first and foremost, as you're
00:37:16 --> 00:37:19 talking about applying it, think about this as
00:37:19 --> 00:37:22 well. A beach, what is it? you got a bunch of
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 sand and individually each grain of sand doesn't
00:37:26 --> 00:37:28 mean much. But when you put all the grains of
00:37:28 --> 00:37:30 sand together they become a beautiful beach.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:34 Well that's no different than AI or applying
00:37:34 --> 00:37:37 technology. Once you apply it you're going to
00:37:37 --> 00:37:39 have to think about how do I link it together
00:37:39 --> 00:37:42 so it makes the entire process more efficient.
00:37:42 --> 00:37:45 So that I can either do more with the same amount
00:37:45 --> 00:37:47 of people or do the same amount with a less amount
00:37:47 --> 00:37:50 of people. Because if If all I do is do a bunch
00:37:50 --> 00:37:52 of AI, but I'm still employing the exact same
00:37:52 --> 00:37:54 amount of people and doing the exact same amount
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 of work, then I haven't cut any cost. I haven't
00:37:57 --> 00:38:00 improved any profit. So you either have to pay
00:38:00 --> 00:38:03 people less or less people, or else you got to
00:38:03 --> 00:38:07 get more work, more business as you apply this
00:38:07 --> 00:38:09 stuff. And that's what finding a way to connect
00:38:09 --> 00:38:12 those things together. And I give you an example.
00:38:12 --> 00:38:16 So I was working and mentoring a group at Bradley
00:38:16 --> 00:38:19 University, a group of students, and their convergence
00:38:19 --> 00:38:22 project, their senior capstone project, was to
00:38:22 --> 00:38:25 work with a company that was an insurance company.
00:38:26 --> 00:38:29 And their actuarial process was extremely expensive.
00:38:29 --> 00:38:32 And they said, help us. So this is a group of
00:38:33 --> 00:38:34 students where they got an accountant, they got
00:38:34 --> 00:38:37 a marketing person, they've got somebody in data
00:38:37 --> 00:38:40 and analytics technology, they've got people
00:38:40 --> 00:38:42 that are more on the general management side
00:38:42 --> 00:38:45 that helps with like HR, marketing, they're all
00:38:45 --> 00:38:49 together. And so there are 10 steps in this actuarial
00:38:49 --> 00:38:53 process. Step three was one where because it
00:38:53 --> 00:38:56 was such a unique focus for this company, their
00:38:56 --> 00:39:00 actuarial science employees would have to go
00:39:00 --> 00:39:04 out and do sometimes 100 or more hours of research
00:39:04 --> 00:39:08 in multiple different sources just to come back
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 and actually write the policy. So what this group
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 did is they went in and understood all of that
00:39:14 --> 00:39:18 and using ChatGPT, they actually wrote something
00:39:18 --> 00:39:21 that would go do the research into the databases
00:39:21 --> 00:39:24 for the actuarial scientists. Now, when they
00:39:24 --> 00:39:27 did it, all they did is they went in and they
00:39:27 --> 00:39:31 said, hey, source number one, has no relevance
00:39:31 --> 00:39:34 to the policy that you're trying to write. So
00:39:34 --> 00:39:37 put it aside. And if there were 100 sources,
00:39:37 --> 00:39:40 it would go through in what used to take about
00:39:40 --> 00:39:43 100 hours for the human in about three hours.
00:39:43 --> 00:39:46 And it would boil it down to here are the three
00:39:46 --> 00:39:50 or the five, whatever, sources of information
00:39:50 --> 00:39:53 that are most relevant to this policy. So now
00:39:53 --> 00:39:55 the human. didn't have to do all the research
00:39:55 --> 00:39:58 to go, number one, don't need that. Number six,
00:39:58 --> 00:40:00 don't need that. Number 10, don't need that.
00:40:00 --> 00:40:05 I need number two, 47, and 62 are the three bits
00:40:05 --> 00:40:07 of data and information that I need to deep dive
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10 on. The humans still did the deep dive, but all
00:40:10 --> 00:40:14 that work to rule out or to get through the noise
00:40:14 --> 00:40:17 and focus on what's important was done by the
00:40:17 --> 00:40:19 technology. And it literally saved them hundreds
00:40:19 --> 00:40:23 of thousands of dollars a year. because of the
00:40:23 --> 00:40:25 way it was applied. They didn't apply it across
00:40:25 --> 00:40:27 the entire 10 steps. They took one and simply
00:40:27 --> 00:40:31 improved it. That's amazing. Thank you for sharing.
00:40:31 --> 00:40:33 And also you are a university professor now.
00:40:33 --> 00:40:37 So I'm curious to understand how you think the
00:40:37 --> 00:40:40 curriculum needs to change, you know, in light
00:40:40 --> 00:40:44 of AI and really what the modern finance organization
00:40:44 --> 00:40:49 needs. Yeah. So I think There's a couple things.
00:40:49 --> 00:40:53 I think the curriculum needs to become more experiential
00:40:53 --> 00:40:55 in learning, and I know that's the big buzzword.
00:40:56 --> 00:40:59 Some universities do it better than others, okay?
00:40:59 --> 00:41:01 But when I'm talking about experiential learning,
00:41:01 --> 00:41:05 in the classroom, these students need to understand
00:41:05 --> 00:41:08 how to apply all of the concepts they've learned
00:41:08 --> 00:41:12 over four or five years. And I even had a student
00:41:12 --> 00:41:15 say to me not too long ago, I learned each individual
00:41:15 --> 00:41:20 topic. over my first four years, but it wasn't
00:41:20 --> 00:41:23 until your class when you started to say, hey,
00:41:23 --> 00:41:27 for example, financial statement ratios and evaluating
00:41:27 --> 00:41:30 the financial statements of a company, we actually
00:41:30 --> 00:41:32 went in and did it. We took a 10K, we applied
00:41:32 --> 00:41:34 the ratios, did the calculations, then we said,
00:41:35 --> 00:41:37 what do they mean? So you have an inventory turns
00:41:37 --> 00:41:41 of 2 .41. Is it good or bad? And we really got
00:41:41 --> 00:41:44 into how you apply it, how you compare it to
00:41:44 --> 00:41:46 competitors. And then are they really competitors?
00:41:47 --> 00:41:49 Because one company maybe is more vertically
00:41:49 --> 00:41:51 integrated than another one. So that has an impact.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:54 So it really came down to it taught them how
00:41:54 --> 00:41:58 to think. And so now they understood when they
00:41:58 --> 00:42:01 went out in the working world, not just how to
00:42:01 --> 00:42:04 do the math and do the staff level. pull the
00:42:04 --> 00:42:07 invoices in an audit and tick and tie. Instead,
00:42:07 --> 00:42:09 they understood the questions to ask. So now,
00:42:10 --> 00:42:12 if AI was gonna do that work, they could ask
00:42:12 --> 00:42:16 the right questions of AI to know that they were
00:42:16 --> 00:42:19 getting a good answer back. So that's step one.
00:42:19 --> 00:42:23 Understand how to ask the right questions and
00:42:23 --> 00:42:25 get some training because of experiential learning.
00:42:25 --> 00:42:28 The second one, and is probably as or more important,
00:42:29 --> 00:42:31 is to learn how to triangulate. Meaning, when
00:42:31 --> 00:42:35 you get an answer back from AI, You know, one
00:42:35 --> 00:42:37 of my mentors used to say, Freitas, I don't care
00:42:37 --> 00:42:39 what the spreadsheet says, I know you got all
00:42:39 --> 00:42:42 the formulas right, but is it the right answer?
00:42:42 --> 00:42:45 And how do you know it is? Well, if you're good
00:42:45 --> 00:42:49 enough to know there are six other metrics that
00:42:49 --> 00:42:52 are out there, and we know when they're aligned
00:42:52 --> 00:42:55 like this, it means that inventory turns, in
00:42:55 --> 00:42:58 my example, should be between two and three.
00:42:58 --> 00:43:01 So if something comes back with AI and it tells
00:43:01 --> 00:43:04 me nine, I know it's wrong. Yes. Maybe I didn't
00:43:04 --> 00:43:06 ask the right question, but I have to deep dive
00:43:06 --> 00:43:09 because it cannot be right. If it comes in between
00:43:09 --> 00:43:12 two and three, I can probably move on. AI helped
00:43:12 --> 00:43:14 me. It's close enough. And by the way, some people
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16 will go, well, Dave, what if you're wrong? What
00:43:16 --> 00:43:20 if it was 2 .2 and the answer came back 2 .2
00:43:20 --> 00:43:23 and it's really 2 .4? Would it have changed what
00:43:23 --> 00:43:26 you were going to do? Would it have changed your
00:43:26 --> 00:43:29 decision? If not, just move forward. It doesn't
00:43:29 --> 00:43:31 matter. You don't have to do anymore. It doesn't
00:43:31 --> 00:43:34 matter whether it was 2 .2 or 2 .4. The point
00:43:34 --> 00:43:36 is you were still going to do the project. Now,
00:43:36 --> 00:43:39 if it really was nothing, you may not do the
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42 project, it would change your decision. So it's
00:43:42 --> 00:43:45 understanding the ability to triangulate. But
00:43:45 --> 00:43:48 on the other side of it, I would say universities
00:43:48 --> 00:43:54 need to sit down with partner companies, companies
00:43:54 --> 00:43:56 that they partner with, whether it be on advisory
00:43:56 --> 00:43:58 councils or things of that sort, and say, How
00:43:58 --> 00:44:02 are your job descriptions for entry -level positions
00:44:02 --> 00:44:04 going to change? What are the duties going to
00:44:04 --> 00:44:08 be like when AI is fully deployed and technology
00:44:08 --> 00:44:10 is fully deployed? And listen to what they're
00:44:10 --> 00:44:12 saying as to, well, when we bring somebody in,
00:44:12 --> 00:44:14 they're not going to do this, this, or this anymore.
00:44:14 --> 00:44:16 Here's a job description. Here it is right here.
00:44:16 --> 00:44:18 I'm going to send it to you. These are going
00:44:18 --> 00:44:20 away. Here are the new things they're going to
00:44:20 --> 00:44:23 do. Once they understand that, now universities
00:44:23 --> 00:44:27 can... tailor their curriculum around meeting
00:44:27 --> 00:44:30 those new job descriptions. And the reason I
00:44:30 --> 00:44:32 say that's important is because I don't think
00:44:32 --> 00:44:36 a lot of employers know exactly how quickly that
00:44:36 --> 00:44:38 it's going to move those entry level positions
00:44:38 --> 00:44:40 and exactly what they'll look like. but they
00:44:40 --> 00:44:44 can start to get an idea. And if the universities
00:44:44 --> 00:44:46 stay close to their partner companies, they'll
00:44:46 --> 00:44:49 be able to see that migration and make the adjustments
00:44:49 --> 00:44:52 over the course of time. Wow. Thank you so much
00:44:52 --> 00:44:54 for sharing. That is so insightful because I
00:44:54 --> 00:44:57 remember coming out of college, however many
00:44:57 --> 00:45:01 years ago, because I'm 39, 99, right. And I didn't
00:45:01 --> 00:45:04 feel prepared even though I graduated summa cum
00:45:04 --> 00:45:07 laude and I went into the workforce. I was like.
00:45:07 --> 00:45:10 Okay, I'm not sure I know how to apply. So I
00:45:10 --> 00:45:13 think with AI, like you said, we need to be more
00:45:13 --> 00:45:15 experiential, like we need to be more practical
00:45:15 --> 00:45:18 in the curriculum to better prepare people. But
00:45:18 --> 00:45:21 I'm also curious about people already in the
00:45:21 --> 00:45:25 workforce, and AI is here. It's changing our
00:45:25 --> 00:45:29 job descriptions as we are in those jobs. How
00:45:29 --> 00:45:32 do you think we need to evolve the way we think?
00:45:32 --> 00:45:36 Because you mentioned for students, I'm teaching
00:45:36 --> 00:45:39 them how to better think so they can ask better
00:45:39 --> 00:45:41 questions. For someone that started their accounting
00:45:41 --> 00:45:45 career 15 years ago and still have a good 20,
00:45:45 --> 00:45:48 30 years in the profession, what do you think
00:45:48 --> 00:45:52 are some of the things they can do to adapt and
00:45:52 --> 00:45:59 evolve with AI? Well, I think they have to Again,
00:45:59 --> 00:46:02 it comes down to understanding how a company
00:46:02 --> 00:46:04 works and why the way it does. I know I've beat
00:46:04 --> 00:46:06 that to death, but I mean, I'll give you an example.
00:46:06 --> 00:46:09 When I first started working with data scientists
00:46:09 --> 00:46:14 and I had some work for them and I thought I
00:46:14 --> 00:46:15 was asking the right question. I said, look,
00:46:15 --> 00:46:18 I need you to go in and take the last 10 years.
00:46:18 --> 00:46:20 And whenever this situation applied, I need to
00:46:20 --> 00:46:23 know what the variable margin was. And they said,
00:46:23 --> 00:46:26 OK, great. And we got into it. We talked about
00:46:26 --> 00:46:27 a bunch of different things. He was all excited.
00:46:27 --> 00:46:29 And he goes, I just got one question for you.
00:46:29 --> 00:46:32 What's variable margin? And how do you calculate
00:46:32 --> 00:46:36 it? OK. This was not an accountant. They were
00:46:36 --> 00:46:39 a data scientist. So I realized right there,
00:46:39 --> 00:46:41 okay, I have to come back and take a little different
00:46:41 --> 00:46:44 approach because I have a non accountant who
00:46:44 --> 00:46:46 I can't take for granted. They understand what
00:46:46 --> 00:46:48 variable margin is. And if he hadn't asked that
00:46:48 --> 00:46:50 question, what I would have gotten back, I would
00:46:50 --> 00:46:53 have wasted a few days and he would come back
00:46:53 --> 00:46:54 with something. I've been going, this is not
00:46:54 --> 00:46:58 verbal margin. I can't use it. And so, um, making
00:46:58 --> 00:47:00 sure you understand either who you're working
00:47:00 --> 00:47:03 with or if it's truly artificial intelligence
00:47:03 --> 00:47:06 and you're asking Claude or whatever questions,
00:47:07 --> 00:47:09 don't assume that they know what variable margin
00:47:09 --> 00:47:12 is, for example, or make sure you're asking your
00:47:12 --> 00:47:15 question in a way that will get you the right
00:47:15 --> 00:47:18 answer. I'll give you another short example.
00:47:20 --> 00:47:23 When I was a part of a team with an engineer,
00:47:23 --> 00:47:26 manufacturing specialist, a purchasing specialist,
00:47:27 --> 00:47:30 marketing and me as the accountant designing
00:47:30 --> 00:47:34 a new line of wheel loader lift arms. I had the
00:47:34 --> 00:47:36 engineer tell me, so what's going to cost less?
00:47:37 --> 00:47:40 Should I do this with a casting or fabrication?
00:47:40 --> 00:47:43 If I'd had AI today, I would say, what's the
00:47:43 --> 00:47:48 cost per pound of a fabrication or a cost per
00:47:48 --> 00:47:50 pound of a casting? Wrong question because it
00:47:50 --> 00:47:52 would have come back and given me a generic answer.
00:47:53 --> 00:47:56 Problem is with fabrication, what I found out
00:47:56 --> 00:48:00 was there is a material spec called 1E577 and
00:48:00 --> 00:48:03 it is a lot stronger than the 1E170. The 1E170
00:48:03 --> 00:48:08 is a lot lower in cost per pound. So today I
00:48:08 --> 00:48:10 would have said look I know this thing based
00:48:10 --> 00:48:12 on what the engineer told me has to be built
00:48:12 --> 00:48:17 with 1E577. So what is the cost? of material
00:48:17 --> 00:48:21 at the 1E577 spec on a cost per pound basis.
00:48:22 --> 00:48:25 And if I've got, you know, one ton of material
00:48:25 --> 00:48:28 that I need or whatever versus in a casting.
00:48:29 --> 00:48:31 Oh, by the way, casting is going to have to infuse
00:48:31 --> 00:48:36 a certain type of material into the dye to avoid
00:48:36 --> 00:48:38 hot tears. So now that I know that material,
00:48:38 --> 00:48:41 I can be more specific in what I ask for. But
00:48:41 --> 00:48:43 if I didn't know that, then I would have asked
00:48:43 --> 00:48:45 a higher level question and I would have run
00:48:45 --> 00:48:50 with the answer and been wrong. So it's that
00:48:50 --> 00:48:55 kind of thing where the... accountants of the
00:48:55 --> 00:48:58 world, employees of the world have to get beyond
00:48:58 --> 00:49:00 the, I'm gonna come into work, I'm gonna plug
00:49:00 --> 00:49:01 some numbers into spreadsheet, I'm gonna do,
00:49:02 --> 00:49:05 they really have to understand far beyond their
00:49:05 --> 00:49:08 functional discipline as to what are we in business
00:49:08 --> 00:49:10 to do and why, and how does this thing work,
00:49:10 --> 00:49:13 because I gotta know what question to ask AI.
00:49:13 --> 00:49:16 If I do, I'm gonna be really efficient, the company's
00:49:16 --> 00:49:18 gonna be efficient. If I don't know how to ask
00:49:18 --> 00:49:20 the right question, we're either gonna be bankrupt,
00:49:20 --> 00:49:22 because we're gonna make the wrong decisions,
00:49:22 --> 00:49:25 or it's going to cause me to have to rework it
00:49:25 --> 00:49:27 and I'm going to be at a competitive disadvantage
00:49:27 --> 00:49:29 because it takes me way too long to get things
00:49:29 --> 00:49:33 done. Wow. Thank you so much, Dave. I know we
00:49:33 --> 00:49:35 we're coming at the end here. This is so good.
00:49:35 --> 00:49:38 Like you gave like five masterclass in one episode.
00:49:38 --> 00:49:42 So you I hope you're coming back. And so my last
00:49:42 --> 00:49:45 question will be wanting to know what is your
00:49:45 --> 00:49:49 favorite thing to do outside of work? So first
00:49:49 --> 00:49:51 and foremost, it's spend time with with family.
00:49:52 --> 00:49:56 But if I set that aside, because it's a lot of
00:49:56 --> 00:50:01 fun with a wife of 37 years, a son and a daughter
00:50:01 --> 00:50:04 who are both in their 30s, very successful as
00:50:04 --> 00:50:07 well, and now three grandsons. But you set that
00:50:07 --> 00:50:11 aside for a minute. Yeah, I like to play golf
00:50:11 --> 00:50:16 and like to travel. The golf game, it's... It
00:50:16 --> 00:50:21 varies in my ability to play it well, but I like
00:50:21 --> 00:50:24 to get out and enjoy it. And I do about 2
00:50:24 --> 00:50:27 miles of walking or jogging, running, that type
00:50:27 --> 00:50:31 of thing each year. And so that all goes together
00:50:31 --> 00:50:33 with the golf and you can kind of enjoy it. And
00:50:33 --> 00:50:37 then traveling, we've been getting into riverboat
00:50:37 --> 00:50:41 cruises and ocean liner cruises. And so that's
00:50:41 --> 00:50:44 a lot of fun. And it's definitely... you know,
00:50:44 --> 00:50:48 uh, don't, uh, nobody's got a contract to be
00:50:48 --> 00:50:50 here tomorrow, so it's okay to plan for the future,
00:50:50 --> 00:50:53 but just don't forget to live for today. Make
00:50:53 --> 00:50:56 a difference each and every day. Take a step
00:50:56 --> 00:50:58 towards your personal and professional goals
00:50:58 --> 00:51:01 each and every day. Wow. Thank you so much, Dave,
00:51:01 --> 00:51:03 for being on the show. I definitely wonder when
00:51:03 --> 00:51:07 I grew up to be like you in so many ways. Thank
00:51:07 --> 00:51:11 you so much. Thank you. And that's it for today's
00:51:11 --> 00:51:14 episode of the Diary of a CFO Podcast. I hope
00:51:14 --> 00:51:17 you enjoyed it as much as I did. If so, don't
00:51:17 --> 00:51:19 forget to leave a review and subscribe. Dave
00:51:19 --> 00:51:22 is such a great mentor. He has helped me so much
00:51:22 --> 00:51:24 to have him on my personal board of directors,
00:51:25 --> 00:51:27 actually one of seven people I have on my personal
00:51:27 --> 00:51:29 board of directors. And if you're new to the
00:51:29 --> 00:51:31 whole concept of having a personal board of directors,
00:51:31 --> 00:51:34 I strongly encourage you to look into it. I actually
00:51:34 --> 00:51:37 wrote a guide about how you can get started and
00:51:37 --> 00:51:39 I will leave the link in the description. helped
00:51:39 --> 00:51:43 me in many ways. I can't even begin to, uh, to
00:51:43 --> 00:51:45 explain. So definitely check it out. As always,
00:51:45 --> 00:51:48 if you have any questions, just email me at ask
00:51:48 --> 00:51:51 at the diary of a CFO .com and for deeper dive,
00:51:51 --> 00:51:54 you can always visit our website, the diary of
00:51:54 --> 00:51:57 a CFO .com with insightful, insightful articles.
00:51:58 --> 00:52:01 I just wrote one about the first 90 days as a
00:52:01 --> 00:52:04 CFO, as well as other good gems. So head out
00:52:04 --> 00:52:05 there and I'll see you next time.