The Art of Becoming a Strategic CFO, with Dr. Tamer Alsayed

00:00:04 --> 00:00:07 Today's episode is brought to you by BILL, a
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00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 the show notes. Welcome back to the diary of
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 a CFO podcast. The podcast where finance leaders
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 share the lessons, challenges, and wins that
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 shape their careers, as well as their organizations.
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 I'm your host, Wassia Kamon, and today I'm so
00:00:38 --> 00:00:43 delighted to have with me Dr. Tamer Alsayed. Currently
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 holds a CFO position at the Future Investment
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 Initiative, which is part of the Saudi Public
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 Sovereign Fund, PIF. He is a finance leader with
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 over 23 years of hands -on experience across
00:00:54 --> 00:00:58 industries, countries, and boardrooms. His work
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 in everything from family business to big four
00:01:00 --> 00:01:04 firms to large regional groups, always with one
00:01:04 --> 00:01:06 goal in mind to make finance matter beyond the
00:01:06 --> 00:01:11 numbers. He holds a FCMA, a CGMA, with a PhD
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 in global finance. Over the years, he's led IPOs,
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 M &A deals, turnarounds, but he will be the first
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 to tell you... then none of that matters unless
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 you are building trust, clarity, and real value.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 Welcome to the show, Dr. Tamer. Pleasure to be
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 here. Thank you, Asia. I really appreciate the
00:01:28 --> 00:01:31 opportunity to share my knowledge and my thoughts
00:01:31 --> 00:01:34 with your audience. Thank you. Oh, thank you.
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 I know that you have a PhD in finance, so for
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 somebody to go to that level, I'm always curious
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 to hear what drew you to finance in the first
00:01:42 --> 00:01:48 place. You want to hear the truth? Yes. Okay,
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 it was a challenge between me and a friend and
00:01:52 --> 00:01:56 I won the bet But anyway, anyway, I love to study.
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 I love to read I love to push myself to the limit
00:01:59 --> 00:02:04 and I talk it I talk it after my CGMA challenge
00:02:04 --> 00:02:08 because I I had many challenges during my career
00:02:08 --> 00:02:11 But again, it was like the cherry on the top
00:02:11 --> 00:02:15 and I love the experience Good for you. Good
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 for you. So why don't you tell us what brought
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 you to this point in your career? Where are you
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 a CF when also an author which I hope we get
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 to talk a bit a bit more about that What was
00:02:24 --> 00:02:28 some unexpected twist along the way? That's like
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 you're bringing me back. Well, it's like I've
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 had a few I've had a few I started in audit like
00:02:36 --> 00:02:40 many do big four firms long hours Coffees that
00:02:40 --> 00:02:43 could strip paint from the walls, but it taught
00:02:43 --> 00:02:48 me discipline and precision. Then I jumped into
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 industry, private companies, family businesses,
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 oil and gas, manufacturing, technology, and I
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 have like worn many hats so far. One of the biggest
00:02:58 --> 00:03:02 twists is like getting into a massive family
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 conglomerate early in my career and realizing
00:03:05 --> 00:03:10 that logic alone does not move people. Relation
00:03:10 --> 00:03:14 and networking matter. Emotions matter. I had
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 to learn fast how to influence others. Influence
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 without authority. And that's what shaped my
00:03:21 --> 00:03:25 leadership style, my mindset, my vision, that
00:03:25 --> 00:03:30 always human comes first by finance second. Another
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 twist, another twist was, yeah, because you asked,
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 another twist was becoming a CFO in my 30s. In
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 a region where experience, experience was everything.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 I was very young, by the way, and I look young
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 somehow. You still do. I have good genes. I have
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 good genes. I don't know. So I was too young
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 for the position. That's why I learned into strategy.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:56 I tried to build trust with the board, with the
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 founders, with the management, with my colleague,
00:03:59 --> 00:04:03 with my peers as well, and focused on impact,
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 not the title. That's what brought me and that's
00:04:06 --> 00:04:10 what attracted me. Nice. And I like how you said
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 you became a CFO in your thirties, you're too
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 young for the role because that's me right now.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 So I'm curious to see what do you think made
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 you stand out, right? Because you said you were
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 in an environment where experience with everything
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 and yet you were picked for the role. What would
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 you say are some of the things that helped you
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 make that move at some point? Why would they
00:04:28 --> 00:04:32 go, we need this guy to be our CFO? You're asking
00:04:32 --> 00:04:37 so hard and tough question. I have to give it
00:04:37 --> 00:04:40 to you. Okay, I always had this one thing in
00:04:40 --> 00:04:45 mind. I look young, so I should do what exactly?
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 Exceed whatever the expectations are. Expectations
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 in terms of company's role, job description,
00:04:53 --> 00:04:57 my competition. So I had this in mind that whenever
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 I go for a qualification, for a study, for a
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 course, for a program, I always go market oriented.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:07 So what does market oriented means? Where is
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 the market is headed in terms of finance investment?
00:05:11 --> 00:05:15 Compliance risk audit I would go after yeah,
00:05:15 --> 00:05:19 it depends on reading the market attending conferences
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 meeting new people listening to the discussion
00:05:22 --> 00:05:26 what's going on what are the risks in the market
00:05:26 --> 00:05:30 and I will go and Take this course and thank
00:05:30 --> 00:05:35 God I succeed one of the most most challenging
00:05:35 --> 00:05:39 qualification I have ever had is the CIMA. It's
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 long. Yeah. Tell the audience what the CIMA is
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 because I'm here in the U .S. and we do the CPA
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 and it's four parts and we think like it's a
00:05:48 --> 00:05:52 big deal. Please tell us how does the CIMA works?
00:05:52 --> 00:05:58 Please. So I don't want to make it complicated,
00:05:59 --> 00:06:03 but I want you to. go with the CIMA, which is
00:06:03 --> 00:06:04 the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants
00:06:04 --> 00:06:08 from the UK. And once you pass, hopefully you
00:06:08 --> 00:06:11 pass, because it's very, very hard, you will
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 become an associate ACMA, Associate Chartered
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 Management Accountant, and Chartered Global Management
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 Accountant. What does it mean for me to become
00:06:21 --> 00:06:27 one? It took me over two years to finish, especially
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 the strategic level. That's where we Most of
00:06:31 --> 00:06:38 us fail. Me, myself, I failed twice. One of my
00:06:38 --> 00:06:42 dear friends failed four times. And he passed
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 the fifth. And why is that? Because you're not
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 going to pass until you change your mindset from
00:06:48 --> 00:06:52 controlling the books to think beyond the numbers.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 Think future, strategically driven. Become a
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 true finance business partner. and get out of
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 your comfort zone. I used to study in the weekends.
00:07:02 --> 00:07:06 Three hours before my duty starts, I skipped
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 many family occasions because I had this one
00:07:09 --> 00:07:13 goal in mind. I must pass it. No, I'm way better
00:07:13 --> 00:07:17 than this. And I did, I did. And I was crying,
00:07:17 --> 00:07:20 by the way, by the end. When I just opened the
00:07:20 --> 00:07:26 website and found the green box, pass, was my
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30 mark. Oh my God. I called my wife. Please come
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 she she was asleep come and read this for me.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 I'm not sure if I'm dreaming or it's a nightmare
00:07:35 --> 00:07:40 Yeah, I was not dreaming and it was actually
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43 true and I made it fast and three years later
00:07:43 --> 00:07:47 I'm a fellow so yeah It's been hard. It's been
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 hard and how many parts are in the exam before
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 you get to the strategic level? To two parts.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 Okay Then you have to go strategic level and
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 then you have to spend couple years before you
00:07:58 --> 00:08:05 actually become good Congratulations Is that
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 that point of studying for that exam that makes
00:08:08 --> 00:08:10 you realize that you needed to really stretch
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 yourself to be at the strategic level Or did
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 you realize it earlier in your career? No, it
00:08:16 --> 00:08:21 really happened you a specific time in my career
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 this shift happens happened when I joined a startup,
00:08:25 --> 00:08:29 a new startup at the CFO. I love startup life,
00:08:29 --> 00:08:33 I love startup mindset. The company was, I can
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 name the company now, it's called Paxil, P -A
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 -W -X -A -N, it's an American company, American
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 investment manufacturing. It was in manufacturing,
00:08:41 --> 00:08:46 we had this incredible patent technology for
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 plastic shipping pallets registered in both the
00:08:49 --> 00:08:53 US and the Middle East. It wasn't just spreadsheets,
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 not at all, not at all. It was suddenly, I was
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 part of something being built from scratch. We
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 were flying across the world, meeting investor
00:09:03 --> 00:09:07 pitching, pitching at road shows, structuring
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 series A, B, and even C rounds. And I wasn't
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 just building financial models or crunching numbers
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 as they call it these days. I was helping shape
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 the story, helping drafting the future of Pakistan.
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 the evolution, the valuation, and the future
00:09:23 --> 00:09:27 of the business. That journey literally led something
00:09:27 --> 00:09:31 in me inside. It showed me that finance is not
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 just about reporting the past. We all know that
00:09:34 --> 00:09:38 we report the past. It's about influencing what
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 comes next, what comes after. From that point
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 on, I stopped thinking like a finance controller
00:09:45 --> 00:09:49 or a finance guy and started thinking like an
00:09:49 --> 00:09:52 architect. if you may call it, of the business.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 And literally strategy became my default setting,
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 my default setting. I just turn it on and it
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 never shut down or turn off again. Oh, that's
00:10:02 --> 00:10:06 amazing. And how would you describe strategy?
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 I feel like we use we use strategic thinking
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 a lot of time, but it's hard to. touch it. It's
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 hard for some people to grasp it. So if you were
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18 to give an example of what is being strategic
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 about something versus being technical about
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 one thing, right? So you gave the example of
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 you are a startup. What is something that's very
00:10:26 --> 00:10:30 technical thinking, right? But what is something
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 that's more strategic, like when you're trying
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 to impress investors and do things like that?
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 Oh my God. It's like you're digging, you're digging
00:10:38 --> 00:10:45 in my... Yes. You're going to wear multiple hats.
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 You're going to wear multiple hats. You're going
00:10:49 --> 00:10:54 to make sure that suit fits you, whatever the
00:10:54 --> 00:10:58 suit is. So when I say suit, I'm talking about
00:10:58 --> 00:11:02 the business model. I'm talking about the ecosystem.
00:11:02 --> 00:11:07 strategic means you see beyond others and I try
00:11:07 --> 00:11:12 to always do that. What if multiple scenarios
00:11:12 --> 00:11:16 scenario planning you try to find information
00:11:16 --> 00:11:20 in the market by reading by discussing by listening
00:11:20 --> 00:11:24 more than you talk and try always to come with
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 something new something to the table if again
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 because I usually said that If you don't have
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 a seat at the table, maybe you are on the menu.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:39 Oh, that is nice. You'll be eaten. I love it.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:43 If you don't have a seat at the table, then you're
00:11:43 --> 00:11:47 probably on the menu. Wow. Yep. So I always try
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 to come up with something new, something creative
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54 out of the box and make value. It's all about
00:11:54 --> 00:11:59 value. Yes. And you've worked in IPO readiness
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 and M &A deals at different companies. What do
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 you think companies should stop doing when they're
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 trying to impress investors or start doing? I
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 love this one. I love this one. I should meet
00:12:12 --> 00:12:20 your editor later. My editor is me and Chad GPT.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:27 Here's what companies should stop doing. Faking
00:12:27 --> 00:12:31 maturity. Faking maturity. They should stop it.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:35 Investors are not stupid anymore. They've seen
00:12:35 --> 00:12:40 polished decks pitched from people, the inflated
00:12:40 --> 00:12:45 forecasts, the multiples like crazy and the unrealistic
00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 hockey stick projections. What they want is honesty,
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 clarity, and control. Honesty, clarity, and control.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:58 So stop overselling stop hiding weaknesses and
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 Company should become more transparent about
00:13:01 --> 00:13:06 their risks their gaps and Whatever gab in the
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 plan show it and explain it and justify it and
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 how we can come up with solutions in the future
00:13:12 --> 00:13:16 if you are not ready say so and Show how you
00:13:16 --> 00:13:20 are getting ready or when will you become ready
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 and please please? Stop thinking branding will
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 cover bad governance. Because they always think
00:13:27 --> 00:13:31 about it. Oh, we have a big name. We have a brand.
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 We have been building. Okay, that's fine. But
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 again, what about the control, the governance,
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 the SOPs? It doesn't. It doesn't. You want to
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 impress investors? Fix your internal chaos first.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 They can't smell it, by the way. They can smell
00:13:48 --> 00:13:52 it from a mile away. Yes, they can. And as a
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 CFO, as a finance leader in those situation,
00:13:56 --> 00:14:00 there is always that challenge, right? Where
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02 the business wants to impress investors by doing
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 the thing you just say you should stop doing.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 Marketing team, sales team, like they all want
00:14:07 --> 00:14:11 to do that. But then you come in and you're trying
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 to get them to balance and say, okay, maybe let's
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 not do this. Like, can you give us example of...
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 you know, maybe frameworks or tips you have when
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 as a CFO, you have to deal with this. You have
00:14:24 --> 00:14:28 to be able to say, no, I'm not going to show
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 this over inflated forecast or challenge the
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 business to do the right thing. It happened many
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 times and it's still happening, especially when,
00:14:38 --> 00:14:42 okay, let's not talk about investors or startups
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 when you raise funds. No, let's talk about the
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47 board. We have a board meeting and you see, or
00:14:47 --> 00:14:52 let's say the marketing chief, the sales, yeah,
00:14:52 --> 00:14:56 the legal guy gathered in a meeting. We want
00:14:56 --> 00:15:01 to show strong numbers, but we don't have the
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 capacity. We don't have the capability to achieve.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:10 Maybe you show a forecast for a very good year
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 and you come up in the first quarter showing
00:15:13 --> 00:15:18 bad numbers. The second quarter showing very
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 bad numbers, but you will recover in the third
00:15:20 --> 00:15:22 and fourth second half of the year you will recover
00:15:22 --> 00:15:27 and you will at that time at that time it was
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31 a conflict between holding back being a bad cup
00:15:31 --> 00:15:36 and The CEO was pushing show perfect numbers.
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 So I told them we should become transparent I
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 don't want to say a different word. We should
00:15:41 --> 00:15:45 be transparent and again having a meeting and
00:15:45 --> 00:15:50 showing what those numbers can affect us and
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 how it will affect us in the future because we
00:15:52 --> 00:15:56 will be in a very bad situation, in a bad position
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 in front of the world if we show something and
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 the actual is like miles away from what we have
00:16:02 --> 00:16:06 budgeted. Communication is key in this situation.
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 You come up with multiple scenarios, show the
00:16:10 --> 00:16:14 what if, what if. with the projection with the
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 assumptions and if they are not convinced yet
00:16:17 --> 00:16:22 don't show it no sit more in a meeting try to
00:16:22 --> 00:16:26 explain where's the stack this time because sometimes
00:16:26 --> 00:16:30 they say to the CFO looks like you are talking
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 Chinese to me with full respect to Chinese language
00:16:33 --> 00:16:35 they don't understand what you think so come
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 down to their level and try to educate them more
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 about the future about the impact because when
00:16:41 --> 00:16:45 the why it's clear the how is easy. Yes. When
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48 the why is clear, the how is easy. When you know
00:16:48 --> 00:16:52 the why, the issue, the problem, how to fix it
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 and how to put it down in a piece of paper to
00:16:55 --> 00:16:58 the board is easy. But it's sometimes, like you
00:16:58 --> 00:17:02 said, you're talking and they hear something
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 else like gibberish. How do you think we can
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 do a better job of, like you said, coming down
00:17:07 --> 00:17:10 to their level, like understanding how to simplify
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 those complex accounting terms? Because, you
00:17:13 --> 00:17:14 know, you go through school, through all the
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 certification, everything is technical as if
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 you're only talking to accountants. And then
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 you get into the world and it's like, we didn't
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 go to school with you, we didn't take the CMA,
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 like we didn't take all these things you took.
00:17:25 --> 00:17:27 What has been your experience in learning to
00:17:27 --> 00:17:31 simplify those terms for them and really connect?
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 Let's take a quick break to thank Bill, who is
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 sponsoring today's episode. They help businesses
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 and accountants automate all the back office
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 work that slows you down so you can focus on
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45 the strategic stuff. If that sounds like something
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 your team needs, visit bill .com to learn more.
00:17:48 --> 00:17:52 Now back to the episode. Okay. Whenever you submit
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 a report, you have two types of information,
00:17:56 --> 00:18:00 right? Visualized data and your narrative. Plus,
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 what are you saying during the meeting? Okay,
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 first of all, data and numbers tell the story.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:09 So I try to paint and write a story whenever
00:18:09 --> 00:18:13 I'm working on a report. And I always, always
00:18:13 --> 00:18:17 start my report with one executive summary. Okay,
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 listen to this. It's very important. I have this
00:18:19 --> 00:18:24 first slide, first slide that combined one part
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 about the context, what I'm presenting today.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 Second part is the update. what happened from
00:18:31 --> 00:18:35 the last meeting. Third part is the challenges,
00:18:35 --> 00:18:39 what I'm facing. Fourth part is my recommendation,
00:18:39 --> 00:18:43 what I'm recommending. Sometimes we don't go
00:18:43 --> 00:18:47 past or go beyond slide number one. Maybe I have
00:18:47 --> 00:18:50 these five to seven slides, but we usually, like
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54 80 % of the time, stick to slide number one,
00:18:54 --> 00:18:58 where I put all my data, my story. my updates,
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 my challenges, my recommendation in one slide
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 in a very simple narrative beyond the fluff,
00:19:04 --> 00:19:09 beyond the noise and explain everything in the
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 most simplified words you can ever hear. I love
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 the idea of that executives already lining up
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 everything so you can really start having good
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 discussions as opposed to clicking through 10
00:19:19 --> 00:19:24 things and trying to get to the end. Which
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 bring me to my other thing. I saw that you said
00:19:26 --> 00:19:30 somewhere You're not the kind of CFO who hides
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 behind dashboard. So what do you think separates
00:19:33 --> 00:19:39 a good CFO from a great CFO? Okay. Okay. I give
00:19:39 --> 00:19:43 it to you. A good CFO reports the past. I have
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 said that before, but a great CFO shapes the
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 future, shapes the direction. A good CFO gives
00:19:49 --> 00:19:53 you a clean financials, but a great one will
00:19:53 --> 00:19:59 give you the clarity in chaos. Okay. Last one,
00:19:59 --> 00:20:03 a good CFO protects, but a great CFO provokes.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:07 Wow. Provokes. I don't believe in hiding behind
00:20:07 --> 00:20:13 dashboards or KPIs at all. Those are tools. Those
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 are tools. You feel it. You get it. Not shields.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 They are tools for us to use. Not shields. We
00:20:19 --> 00:20:23 cannot hide behind. The best CFOs walk the halls,
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 talk to the people, challenge strategy. support
00:20:27 --> 00:20:31 the CEO, and most importantly, they know when
00:20:31 --> 00:20:35 to say no. And by the way, I have this whenever
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 I join a new company and there is this CEO, I
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 always tell him, consider me as your first and
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 last line of defense. I'm your first and last
00:20:45 --> 00:20:50 line of defense. Utilize my skills and ask me.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:54 And personally, I think a great CFO is a teacher.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:59 Somehow we are teaching others. I mentor a lot
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 of young professionals, by the way, and I tell
00:21:01 --> 00:21:05 them, your job is not to be the smartest guy
00:21:05 --> 00:21:09 in the room, because some of us love to show
00:21:09 --> 00:21:13 off. It's to make others smarter because of you.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 Yes, the inside. To make your CEO smarter than
00:21:16 --> 00:21:20 you. You get me? Yes, absolutely. And I like
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 how you use practical example. And I wanted to
00:21:23 --> 00:21:27 just pivot to your book. Like why don't you tell
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 us I know you mentioned a lot of case studies
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 like tell us a bit about what led you to write
00:21:32 --> 00:21:36 the book and All these case studies that you
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 brought together to help that next generation
00:21:39 --> 00:21:44 of finance leaders uh, okay, I wrote this book
00:21:44 --> 00:21:48 the art of becoming a strategic cfo And why I
00:21:48 --> 00:21:52 wrote it is something that I feel it deep in
00:21:52 --> 00:21:57 my heart And I see it in every occasion, whenever
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 I speak, whenever I mentor, whenever I answer
00:22:00 --> 00:22:03 a question to a colleague that's like 10, 15
00:22:03 --> 00:22:08 years younger than me. We have always this gap
00:22:08 --> 00:22:13 between academic and professional life. There
00:22:13 --> 00:22:17 is a big gap. People stuck in their career, especially
00:22:17 --> 00:22:22 mid -level finance professionals, between seven
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 to 10 years of experience. They're unable to
00:22:25 --> 00:22:29 decide what to do, what would be my next step,
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 how to target companies, how to target qualifications,
00:22:33 --> 00:22:36 how to target experience. Then I had this in
00:22:36 --> 00:22:41 mind. I think I should step up and help. So I
00:22:41 --> 00:22:45 did. It has like 22 chapters. I should send you
00:22:45 --> 00:22:54 one copy. Okay. It has 22 chapters. And it's
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 not academic at all. You would be surprised.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 It's not academic at all. Walking you through
00:23:00 --> 00:23:04 actual situations, role play, case studies. Some
00:23:04 --> 00:23:08 of them are real from actual real study. Actual
00:23:08 --> 00:23:12 problem happened and you have to read and elaborate.
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 And then I'll give you my own version of the
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 problem. It's a challenge. And you're going to
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 read it through and wear the hat of a problem
00:23:21 --> 00:23:26 solver. or futuristic CFO, strategic CFO, and
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 step in and solve it yourself. That's how it
00:23:28 --> 00:23:32 started and ended. That's amazing and sad at
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 the same time that we're all going through the
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 same gap. Right now, I think you are in Saudi
00:23:37 --> 00:23:41 Arabia and I'm here in the U .S. and we have
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 the same gap between academic and then professional
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 when it comes to accounting and finance, like
00:23:47 --> 00:23:50 the way we go in school and what we learn, we
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 come out, it works the couple of few years, maybe
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 you get a certification and then you stuck. What
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 do you think we can do better? Like across the
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 globe, what can we do better about our profession?
00:24:03 --> 00:24:07 Can I say something? And allow me to, again,
00:24:07 --> 00:24:11 it's something provoking. I haven't had, I was
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 not lucky to have a good manager, a good mentor.
00:24:14 --> 00:24:18 And it hurts me. It hurts me a lot. So I have
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 decided to be the complete opposite. Good for
00:24:21 --> 00:24:25 you. Okay. I extend the hand. I extend the hand.
00:24:25 --> 00:24:29 I mentor, I help, I support. I love the team
00:24:29 --> 00:24:34 who works with me. Whenever I, let's say, I always
00:24:34 --> 00:24:39 try to build a better version of Dr. Tamer within
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 my team. So each and every one of them could
00:24:42 --> 00:24:47 become one day a very well -fed successor. Because
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 the seat is not always there. One day you're
00:24:50 --> 00:24:54 going to move out or move up. So someone will
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 replace you. If he's not your successor, I think
00:24:58 --> 00:25:03 if I cannot build a team of successors, I'm a
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 failure. And I'm not a failure. So if you are
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 a manager, if you are a director, if you have
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 a team, support your mentors. and become a good
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 one. Yes that's definitely something that will
00:25:14 --> 00:25:18 help like bridge that gap between you know how
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 you did academically and then you come to professional
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 work having that mentorship that will help you
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 right get to the level like you said of being
00:25:27 --> 00:25:31 a successor but not everybody has that you know
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 yes I want to help yes I want to step in Yes,
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 I want to have successors. Like, what would you
00:25:37 --> 00:25:39 say to people like that? I'm curious. Get yourself
00:25:39 --> 00:25:45 together. Okay. You're talking about the employee
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 type of no, I'm not up to the challenge. Not
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 I'm not up to the challenge or the manager is
00:25:52 --> 00:25:56 not making time to coach the employee or maybe
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 not realizing they need to be that figure to
00:25:59 --> 00:26:03 pull them up. Find a mentor. If it's not your
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07 manager, find a mentor. Trust me, trust me. It
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 makes a big difference. It makes a big difference.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 It will help you like, oh my God, it will save
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16 you a lot of time. If I had that mentor early
00:26:16 --> 00:26:19 in my career, I would have become CFO in my 20s.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 It does make a difference. I mean, I have mentors
00:26:25 --> 00:26:30 myself and I mean the... The ROI, if I can say,
00:26:30 --> 00:26:34 is unbelievable. It's unbelievable. So from your
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 mentors that you finally had, because you said
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 you didn't have mentors earlier, you probably
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 had them later on, what was the best career advice
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 you've ever received from them? What are some?
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 I'll give you the best one. Stay curious, stay
00:26:49 --> 00:26:55 hungry and read a lot. But curiosity makes you
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 different, makes you unique. Because if you're
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 not curious, it means you are going with the
00:27:01 --> 00:27:06 flow. I love challenges. I love to ask. It doesn't
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 matter a bad or good question, but I love to
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 ask. I love to stay curious and dig in the numbers
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 or even what's behind the numbers. But again,
00:27:15 --> 00:27:20 curiosity makes magic. I agree. I agree. That's
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 a good one. Thanks for sharing. So two more questions
00:27:23 --> 00:27:27 before I let you go. What is a career advice
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 you usually give people? I know you mentioned
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 finding a mentor. You just mentioned being curious.
00:27:33 --> 00:27:37 What is something else you would give to the
00:27:37 --> 00:27:42 next generation of finance leaders or CFOs? Please
00:27:42 --> 00:27:46 stop caring about numbers. Care about the cross.
00:27:47 --> 00:27:51 What number means. What numbers means. What type
00:27:51 --> 00:27:55 of leader you want to become and pursue it. I
00:27:55 --> 00:27:59 always love okay I'm talking like leadership
00:27:59 --> 00:28:04 now okay always whenever you talk to someone
00:28:04 --> 00:28:08 try to leave an impact a positive impact okay
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11 when you talk to strangers leave an impact what
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 about yourself what about yourself okay it is
00:28:15 --> 00:28:20 your own career is your own future leave an impact
00:28:20 --> 00:28:24 on yourself try to leave the legacy behind you
00:28:25 --> 00:28:30 No one will live forever but building a legacy
00:28:30 --> 00:28:35 and Different versions better than you is an
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 impact and I always love to have an impact on
00:28:38 --> 00:28:43 people and on myself first so stay curious stay
00:28:43 --> 00:28:48 hungry and Never never never stop learning You
00:28:48 --> 00:28:53 will become obsolete. Oh gosh Yes. Can we talk
00:28:53 --> 00:28:57 about AI for a second? I feel like everything
00:28:57 --> 00:29:02 we learn is like, okay, what do we do now with
00:29:02 --> 00:29:07 AI and all that? What are your thoughts? If I
00:29:07 --> 00:29:12 may echo what you just said, I was at this conference
00:29:12 --> 00:29:17 in Riyadh last week. It's called the Future CFO
00:29:17 --> 00:29:22 Leadership, and I hosted a group discussion titled
00:29:22 --> 00:29:27 AI and CFOs. Are we training our replacements
00:29:27 --> 00:29:32 or assistance? Oh, nice. And the discussion went,
00:29:33 --> 00:29:37 oh my God, over the roof because we had, we had
00:29:37 --> 00:29:41 like mix of professions, not only in finance,
00:29:41 --> 00:29:48 HR, IT, sales and management as well. So instead
00:29:48 --> 00:29:52 of asking about only finance people. The discussion
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 went far away, even past finance went to IT.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:02 So would AI replace CTOs, for example? Okay.
00:30:03 --> 00:30:09 Would AI replace salespeople somehow? The HR,
00:30:10 --> 00:30:15 procurement, and the feedback I got from the
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 audience was like mind blowing. Some of them
00:30:18 --> 00:30:23 believe like 40 % of our day -to -day operation
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 will be eliminated. And I agree with that because
00:30:26 --> 00:30:32 it meant to help you make decision faster and
00:30:32 --> 00:30:36 like, let's say 90 % accurate. So it save your
00:30:36 --> 00:30:41 time, help you lead in the right way. But what
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 about other professions? You get my point? What
00:30:44 --> 00:30:47 about other professions? What will happen? It's
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 not only finance guys. wake up stop only finance
00:30:50 --> 00:30:54 it's true because we work with other functions
00:30:54 --> 00:30:57 and however they're being transformed we will
00:30:57 --> 00:31:00 also be transformed right like if your peer now
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 is a robot i don't know or you know have that
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06 kind of assistant it's good to stay up to date
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 but i love that that that concept and how can
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 we find those kind of things right because i
00:31:12 --> 00:31:14 would have loved to attend that but you're on
00:31:14 --> 00:31:17 the other side of the world Do you have a website
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 like how can we um catch such great insight from
00:31:20 --> 00:31:24 right here asking for a friend? I'll send the
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 invitation later. I'll tell you what happened.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 Okay. I've been using ai for the past two years
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 two years Yeah, yeah personally and professionally
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 personally and professionally and I came up with
00:31:35 --> 00:31:39 this ai tool i'm, not sure if I should say the
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 name or not But anyway, anyway, I was like late
00:31:42 --> 00:31:46 at night 10 pm having my coffee and watching
00:31:46 --> 00:31:50 a movie and I was bored. I said, why not I go
00:31:50 --> 00:31:54 and try it out and find what will happen. So
00:31:54 --> 00:31:59 after four hours of playing with AI, I created
00:31:59 --> 00:32:04 this lovely website that teaches you corporate
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 finance with live examples, with dashboard, with
00:32:07 --> 00:32:11 different case studies and scenarios website,
00:32:12 --> 00:32:16 fully functional in four hours. Yep. Wow. It
00:32:16 --> 00:32:18 was an introduction about who created the website,
00:32:18 --> 00:32:22 which is me, a link to my LinkedIn profile, and
00:32:22 --> 00:32:26 of course a box to send me questions or how to
00:32:26 --> 00:32:30 improve this website. Amazing. And the people
00:32:30 --> 00:32:34 loved it. And still, until yesterday, I'm getting
00:32:34 --> 00:32:38 DMs on LinkedIn, I just logged out of your website
00:32:38 --> 00:32:42 and it's teaching me a lot. I'm getting a lot
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 of information, a lot of... new ideas. It's not
00:32:45 --> 00:32:49 only it covers the whole ecosystem of corporate
00:32:49 --> 00:32:54 funds. Okay. From NPV, from DCF to investment
00:32:54 --> 00:32:58 valuation. Four hours. Yes, in four hours. Yeah.
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 So you're going to share the website with us
00:33:00 --> 00:33:05 in the show notes? No, it's impressive. And it
00:33:05 --> 00:33:08 goes back to what you said about If you don't
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10 keep learning, you'll be obsolete. Because the
00:33:10 --> 00:33:14 minute, I think the pace of technology now, the
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 minute you think you have arrived, something
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19 else shows up. You really need to stay curious
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 and stay learning. Thank you so much for such
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 greetings. And my last question, what is your
00:33:25 --> 00:33:27 favorite thing to do outside of work and building
00:33:27 --> 00:33:32 a website with AI? Oh, that's a personal one.
00:33:32 --> 00:33:36 Yes. Okay, what? What you don't know about me,
00:33:36 --> 00:33:42 and nobody knows about me, is that I am a professional
00:33:42 --> 00:33:47 competitor in Ironman and Spartan Race. Oh, wow.
00:33:48 --> 00:33:54 That's why you look so young. Shoot. Wow. So
00:33:54 --> 00:33:58 you do the full Ironman. My best friend did one
00:33:58 --> 00:34:01 last year. You did two. No, I do it every year.
00:34:02 --> 00:34:06 You do it every year. Wow. Okay. So how many
00:34:06 --> 00:34:10 hours do you train a week to do this? I train
00:34:10 --> 00:34:13 every day. So during the weekdays, I lift weight.
00:34:14 --> 00:34:18 During the weekend, I join classes like body
00:34:18 --> 00:34:22 pump, circuit training, and boot camp. Wow. So
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 you're swimming, the cycling, the weights, everything.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:33 Okay. Okay. Okay, Ironman. Dr. Iron Man. I should
00:34:33 --> 00:34:37 change the title on LinkedIn. Yes, Dr. Tamer,
00:34:37 --> 00:34:41 Iron Man outside. Yeah, you're right. You're
00:34:41 --> 00:34:45 right. It's a passion. It's a passion. That is
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 amazing. That is amazing. And off record, I'll
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 ask you all about it. But thank you. Thank you
00:34:51 --> 00:34:53 so much for being on the show. It was such a
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 joy to talk with you. I appreciate it. Thank
00:34:56 --> 00:34:59 you. Thank you so much. You were like a bless.
00:34:59 --> 00:35:02 And I love your smile. I love the way you moderate
00:35:02 --> 00:35:05 and your questions are out of this world. Thank
00:35:05 --> 00:35:09 you so much. And that's it for today's episode
00:35:09 --> 00:35:11 of The Diary of a CFO. Thank you so much for
00:35:11 --> 00:35:14 tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget
00:35:14 --> 00:35:17 to like, review, subscribe and share with others.
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