He spent over 20 years at Ernst & Young. He did a secondment to Berlin, Germany by himself. He went back to Alabama to take over the CPA firm his father started 50 years ago. And then he made the leap to CFO of a Nasdaq-listed AI company.
In this episode, I sit down in person with James White, CFO of ScanTech AI Systems. James is a multi-state CPA, an AICPA board member, and the son of one of the first Black CPAs in the state of Alabama.
We talk about what kept him in public accounting for 20 years when most people leave in five. How he made himself easy to get to know in rooms where he was often the only one who looked like him. Why he believes being the smartest person in the room is not what gets you ahead. What he had to learn and unlearn when he moved from auditor to CFO.
How he motivates people who are not as driven as the type A teams he came from in public accounting. Why he told a room full of AICPA leaders that he has always felt like an imposter and how that honesty actually helped him. T
he moment his daughter said she did not want to be an accountant because of how much he worked, and how that changed everything about how he leads. And the generational story that starts with his great-grandfather building a park in Alabama and ends with James sitting on the AICPA board.
Whether you are in public accounting thinking about making the jump, already in the CFO seat figuring out how to lead, or trying to understand what it really takes to make people want to work with you, this conversation covers it.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 We are live in Atlanta. This is a diary of a
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 CFO. And I'm your host, Wassia Kamon. I've called
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 this city home for over two decades, and it is
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 one of the most important business hubs in the
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 country. More than two trillion in payments flow
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 through Atlanta every year, with an estimated
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 70 % of all U .S. credit transactions touching
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 the city. Yet most business conversations are
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 still centered around places like New York or
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 San Francisco. So this is a limited series where
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 I'm sitting down with fellow finance leaders
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 and CFOs. Change that and see what's going on
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 here, how they build their careers, what's working,
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 what's different about doing it here, and how
00:00:35 --> 00:00:40 they carry the weight of these decisions. Today,
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 I'm here with James White. James White is the
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 CFO of ScanTech AI Systems, a company using AI
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 to secure the world's infrastructure. But before,
00:00:49 --> 00:00:51 he was leading the finance function of a cutting
00:00:51 --> 00:00:55 -edge AI firm. He was a senior manager in the
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 assurance practice at Ernst & Young, EY, and
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 he's a Melta CPA who has seen the guts of multibillion
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 -dollar organizations from the outside, and now
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 a CFO is getting to build one from the inside.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 Welcome to the show, James. I see it. Thank you
00:01:07 --> 00:01:08 for having me here. I really appreciate it. Absolutely.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 I'm so glad we finally get to do this, especially
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 because we officially met outside of Atlanta.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 That's true. That's true. In Las Vegas, of all
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 places, at a conference, at a conference. For
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 sure. And to be here is very, very, I'm very
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 happy for that. That's fantastic. Thank you.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 So I would like to start with what brought you
00:01:26 --> 00:01:31 to Atlanta. So I grew up right next door. I'm
00:01:31 --> 00:01:35 an Alabama boy, born and raised. And so, you
00:01:35 --> 00:01:38 know, growing up in Alabama, it's unique. It's
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40 a special experience. However, I knew that there
00:01:40 --> 00:01:45 was more outside of Alabama. So first chance
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 I got, I got out of the state. I graduated from
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 University of Maryland at College Park. But being
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 in the D .C., the DMV, right? I said, you know
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 what, I don't miss the South as much as I thought
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 I did, but wasn't ready to come back to Alabama.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 So Atlanta was, you know, the next best choice
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 for a myriad of reasons. And then growing up
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 in Alabama, we all looked at Atlanta next door,
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 like, you know, let's go have fun over there.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 So I said, okay, that's a great place to start
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 a career. Wasn't too far from home, but it was
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 just right. Oh good. And then the weather must
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 be better too. Depending on kind of what season
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 you're looking for. I mean, summers here can
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 be... They are what they are, right? Humidity
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 is a thing and it's a warm blanket for us all.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 Yes, it is. And now when you came here, did you
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 already know you wanted to be in public accounting?
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 So, yeah, I did actually. So, you know, you know,
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 kind of going back, you know, when people ask
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 me kind of like, who are you? Right. I start
00:02:41 --> 00:02:46 with I'm the great grandson of a pioneer, right
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 over in Alabama. You know, my dad's family hails
00:02:49 --> 00:02:53 from Montgomery. And so you know, this is a generation
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 coming off of the whole sharecropping and things
00:02:56 --> 00:02:59 of that nature. Right. So we had kind of my grandfather
00:02:59 --> 00:03:01 had foresight to kind of my great grandfather
00:03:01 --> 00:03:05 had foresight to kind of obtain a plot of land.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 And he really he actually built or put together
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 the first kind of respite for people in the in
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 the area where you couldn't go to public parks
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 as being an African American in Montgomery County
00:03:18 --> 00:03:22 where we were. So. He created kind of Whites
00:03:22 --> 00:03:26 Lake where that's where we could go to do picnics
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 and kind of have different family reunions and
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 stuff like that. So he created that for people.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:34 My grandfather, greatest man I've ever known,
00:03:34 --> 00:03:38 in the sense that he came up through a hard time
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 and really showed me kind of when you care about
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 someone in your family, the things that you needed
00:03:44 --> 00:03:48 to do. My father... Was one of the first black
00:03:48 --> 00:03:53 CPAs in state of Alabama Started a CPA firm Headquartered
00:03:53 --> 00:03:57 in Alabama, which kind of grew to about five
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 offices at one point I'm still in operation today.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:06 And so You know for the longest time I Thought
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 accounting has something to do with music records
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 because my yeah, I heard he's doing something
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 with records I was like he's in music and didn't
00:04:12 --> 00:04:16 figure out that had nothing to do with it But
00:04:16 --> 00:04:18 I wanted to be an engineer when I went to college.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 I said, oh, I'm going to be a systems engineer,
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 industrial engineer. And I took chemistry. And
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 chemistry told me you don't want to be an engineer
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27 because you don't have the chops. I said, all
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 right, I'll take that. And so accounting kind
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 of came easy to me and said, OK, well, this is,
00:04:33 --> 00:04:34 you know, Atlanta is where I wanted to start
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38 my career because I just kind of followed the
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42 path that so many of us are told. Get this degree
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 in accounting. Go work at a firm. Get your CPA.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 And then, you know, the rest will come to you
00:04:47 --> 00:04:51 after that. Yes. And so when you finally got
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 into public accounting, you stayed like 20 years,
00:04:54 --> 00:04:58 which is, which is a lot because people either
00:04:58 --> 00:05:00 love it or they leave it within like five years.
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 So what kept you in public accounting that long?
00:05:04 --> 00:05:05 You know, let's, you know, let's not kid ourselves.
00:05:05 --> 00:05:09 The profession is a difficult one. It's a grind,
00:05:09 --> 00:05:13 right? It always has been. And I had the fortune
00:05:13 --> 00:05:18 of being able to really form bonds with my teams.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 And so that's what kind of kept, that makes,
00:05:22 --> 00:05:26 you know, there's this adage in the military
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 where they tell you to embrace the suck, right?
00:05:28 --> 00:05:31 So I was able to embrace the suck doing that.
00:05:31 --> 00:05:33 And, you know, I forged a lot of great relationships.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:37 So it made the hard times more like this. this
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 trial and tribulation that we were all going
00:05:39 --> 00:05:43 through. And so we kind of bond over that. And
00:05:43 --> 00:05:49 once I made it to manager, I, like most people,
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 kind of had that point in my career where I was
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 like, do I still want to keep doing this? Because
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 I said to myself, I'm going to stay at least
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 through senior. And then I would talk to people
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 that were my mentors. They were like, well, look,
00:05:59 --> 00:06:00 you need to really stick it out until you make
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 manager. And I had that same issue where I was
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 like, you know, what's here for me. And I had
00:06:05 --> 00:06:09 the fortune of being able to kind of change what
00:06:09 --> 00:06:13 I was doing inside the firm that kept it exciting,
00:06:13 --> 00:06:18 kept it dynamic. I was able to do a secondment
00:06:18 --> 00:06:22 to Berlin, Germany in 2005. So I lived in Berlin
00:06:22 --> 00:06:26 for 2005 2008, serving one of the you know, the
00:06:26 --> 00:06:30 the firm's marquee clients at the time. And so
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 I was able to kind of keep reinventing myself
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 the entire time. That's where, that's what kept
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 me in. And frankly, you know, the thing that
00:06:37 --> 00:06:42 really kept me there was I knew that there were
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 people below me that were looking at what I was
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 doing or what I had achieved. And that gave them
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 value, right? They said, look, if James is doing
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 it, then I can get there too. And so that meant
00:06:54 --> 00:06:57 something to me. At the end of the day, wherever
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 you end up, you know, the people are what's going
00:06:59 --> 00:07:03 to make or break your experience. I'd say by
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 and large for most people. And so it meant something
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 to me that I represented something for people
00:07:09 --> 00:07:13 that kept me kind of in the firm. When there
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 were days where I wasn't, I didn't want to do
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 it that day, but I wasn't ready to kind of throw
00:07:19 --> 00:07:24 in the towel because I wanted to maintain kind
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 of whatever that was, whatever I meant to whomever
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 thought that my presence had some meaning. I
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 said, okay, I'll stick it out for you. Oh, wow.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 That is so inspiring, especially since I just
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 learned that you work with Tiffany. That was
00:07:36 --> 00:07:38 Tiffany Williams. I was also on the podcast.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 So I can only imagine how inspiring it is to
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 have that representation. It's huge, you know,
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 you know, because in the Atlanta office at the
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 time, you know, when we were kind of working
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 through diversity and things of that nature,
00:07:52 --> 00:07:56 when I showed up, there were there weren't that
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 many black partners at EY. And at the time, there
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 were none in Atlanta. So a lot of us were sitting
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 there trying to figure out, well, OK, is partnership
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 a real thing for us? And then that started to
00:08:07 --> 00:08:09 kind of develop and evolve. And so I knew that
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 there were people ahead of me. I said, well,
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 if he's here, then he can help kind of guide
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 me on that path. And I knew eventually I would
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 be doing that for other people as well. And so,
00:08:19 --> 00:08:24 you know, I really believe that being in Atlanta
00:08:24 --> 00:08:30 as, you know, an African -American really changes
00:08:30 --> 00:08:35 kind of the quality of your career because you
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 don't really feel like you're on an island because,
00:08:37 --> 00:08:38 you know, it's a chocolate city. This is how
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 things are. Yes. So it's been a fantastic experience.
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 And now you went partner at your dad's firm.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 Correct. Correct. Correct. So so, you know, I
00:08:47 --> 00:08:54 left EY circa 2015. And so I went back to the
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 firm that my father started. About 50 years ago
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 and took over there as managing partner you know
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 my goal was to kind of take this wealth of information
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 and experience that I had amassed and You know
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 really try and push us out of Gen one into Gen
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 two knowing that Yeah, I had this feeling that
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 the landscape of the profession was going to
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 change right technology has always been rapidly
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 evolving and so You know my goal was to kind
00:09:18 --> 00:09:21 of help kind of take us to the next level And
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 so from partner because a lot of people is like
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 partner is it like I'm gonna be partner I'm gonna
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28 retire partner at which point did you say I want
00:09:28 --> 00:09:32 to come back but not just in Any public accounting
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 like you came and you switch. Yeah to corporate
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 finance and accounting After like two decades
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 in public and like what prompted the change?
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 So it was there were number aspects to it, right?
00:09:44 --> 00:09:46 I think throughout my career. I've always tried
00:09:46 --> 00:09:51 to do I Embrace being uncomfortable Throughout
00:09:51 --> 00:09:54 my entire career. I think and it starts right
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 the first time you show up at a new company So,
00:09:57 --> 00:09:59 you know this goes back to when I was at Ernst
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 & Young I said, okay, I showed up and I said,
00:10:01 --> 00:10:02 all right, I've got to be successful What do
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 I need to do to be successful? and I realized
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 that I'm gonna have to place myself in places
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 where I may be the only, you know dark face in
00:10:11 --> 00:10:15 the room and That's uncomfortable for me, but
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 I've got to sort this out. And so To me, that
00:10:18 --> 00:10:22 was just kind of a training ground for any new
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24 challenge that I took on. You know, for example,
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 when I went to Germany on this conment, didn't
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29 take any family, I went by myself. And so here
00:10:29 --> 00:10:33 I am, you know, a young boy from born in Alabama,
00:10:34 --> 00:10:35 you know, and then you plop me down in the middle
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 of Germany, you know. Not supposed to do that,
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 right? You know, that's not a choice that people
00:10:41 --> 00:10:44 would make. And I just kind of met it head on
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 and said, OK, well, I'll figure it out and we'll
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 go from there. So doing the things that I'm not
00:10:49 --> 00:10:51 supposed to do or people wouldn't expect me to
00:10:51 --> 00:10:54 do, I think has been part of my rite of passage.
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 But it's been amazing. So, you know, I said I've
00:10:57 --> 00:11:02 never been a CFO. I believe that I can do it.
00:11:02 --> 00:11:06 I need the opportunity to do so. And then. I'll
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 figure out the rest, right? I had enough of a
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12 work ethic, you know, because I grew up on, I
00:11:12 --> 00:11:17 grew up at my dad's from Alabama. So he had this
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 idea. He's like, well, I want to have a farm
00:11:19 --> 00:11:23 when he grows up. So naturally goes on 100 acre
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 farm. You know, I grew up with we had about 30
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 to 50 head of cattle, you know, chicken coop
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 with pigs at one point. And so 100 acres. You
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 know, as while other people are just waking up,
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 you know, and kind of getting dropped out of
00:11:36 --> 00:11:38 school, I got to give a six. I got to feed the
00:11:38 --> 00:11:41 cows, got to feed the chickens feed the dogs.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:45 Then I go get ready and go to school. And so
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 my father put a work ethic in me, whether I liked
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 it or not. You know, and so I've never looked
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 at something as though the challenge is going
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 to be too great. I just need to work hard enough
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00 to either get to the answer. get to a place where
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 I'm comfortable and kind of get there. And so
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 all of that, you know, I attribute a lot of that
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06 to my upbringing because I was fortunate enough
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 to have someone who realized that hard work and
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 discipline was going to be the thing that was
00:12:12 --> 00:12:14 setting me apart. Even if I wasn't the smartest
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 guy in the room, I was going to try and outwork
00:12:16 --> 00:12:20 somebody to get to the right place. But that's
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22 great. It's crazy how those things kind of compound
00:12:22 --> 00:12:26 they do and help you be the leader you eventually
00:12:26 --> 00:12:31 are becoming So curious to hear what maybe other
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 things that you think really helped you In your
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 career, you know, it's funny as as mentees come
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 to me, right? What I tell people is that and
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 I realized this kind of during my career was
00:12:44 --> 00:12:51 that No one's preferences or biases are intentional,
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 right? People have the tendency to do what's
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 most comfortable for them. We take the path of
00:12:57 --> 00:13:01 least resistance whenever we can. So when I was
00:13:01 --> 00:13:07 at Ernst & Young, you know, my focus was on making
00:13:07 --> 00:13:11 myself as easy to get to know as possible, right?
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 Finding as many common places as I could find
00:13:13 --> 00:13:17 with people. in order for them to want to maybe
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 invest in me, right? Because there are a number
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21 of times where you see people and they would
00:13:21 --> 00:13:25 struggle with being at the firm, like no one
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 really talks to me or we're not relating on things.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 I was like, that's not their job to find a common
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 place in you, to relate to you. It's your job
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 to find a common place where the two of you can
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 connect on something. and then that'll kind of
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 want them to kind of pour into you in that regard.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 And so that's how I approached every day and
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 all the relationships that I had at the firm.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 So, you know, that's kind of what I tell people.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 I was like, listen, you've got to find a way
00:13:50 --> 00:13:54 to become vulnerable, right? Because that's weird
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 for us to kind of sit there and talk about your
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 life with somebody who's a stranger, right? But
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 you're trying to find just a little nugget, a
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 little slice where the two of you can connect
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05 and something that you guys can talk about. And
00:14:05 --> 00:14:07 they'll be like, hey, I'm working on this thing.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 Have you dealt with this before? No. Well, come
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 on, let me show you what I'm doing. And that
00:14:11 --> 00:14:15 changes your entire experience 100%. And so I
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 think that that was a part of is that look, you
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 have to make yourself likable, right? Nobody
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 has to, you know, because that's who people want
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 to work with, collaborate with, work around.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:25 They want to work around with people that they
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 like. Now, you know, you may not be the sharpest
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 tech. They'll teach you the rest, you know, but
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 they want to see that you're there, you're committed
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 and until you have a bond. And once you've established
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 that, Things will work out for you. You know,
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 you'll get lucky at that point Yeah, and but
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 you create your luck right because you because
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 it's it's something we don't want to admit but
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 people will pick who they like to work with like
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 in interviews in promotions in all that it's
00:14:51 --> 00:14:52 like it's almost like you want to hate the game
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 all you want but You know, you're still in the
00:14:55 --> 00:14:59 game still in the game, right? Don't know. What
00:14:59 --> 00:15:00 is it an MPU or whatever they call them? It's
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02 like you don't want to be the one that's just
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 there on the sideline get engaged, right, make
00:15:05 --> 00:15:09 connections because you'll realize later on in
00:15:09 --> 00:15:13 your career, it's, you know, it's it's going
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 to be as much of who you know, but it's also
00:15:16 --> 00:15:18 going to be who knows you and what they know
00:15:18 --> 00:15:22 about you. Right. Based off of your track record,
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 based off of other people's word of mouth. And
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 so that's really what's going to help drive.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 People are sitting in these rooms and making
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 decisions on who do we want to be here or be
00:15:32 --> 00:15:36 there. It's gonna be based off of that. That's
00:15:36 --> 00:15:38 a factor. It's a huge factor. It is it is so
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 I'm curious to hear though Having spent, you
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 know this much time in public in his industry
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 What is one thing that you really miss about
00:15:46 --> 00:15:52 that versus not? So what I miss I miss I miss
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 the people okay that that that really made it
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 made it everything for me, you know, there were
00:15:57 --> 00:16:02 Times where you know, I was serving Coca -Cola
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 was my kind of primary account when I was there.
00:16:05 --> 00:16:09 And so we bonded around, you know, the war, we
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 felt like that we were going through to kind
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 of meet these deadlines, get the numbers right
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 and get things out. And, you know, look, I, you
00:16:16 --> 00:16:17 know, I don't want to sit here and glamorize
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 the suck it, you know, because, you know, I don't
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 want to lie to anybody and say, look, the profession
00:16:22 --> 00:16:26 is very difficult. The regulatory space is kind
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 of very strange right now. And so the magnitude
00:16:29 --> 00:16:32 that your errors can have on not only your personal
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 career, firm reputation, so on and so forth.
00:16:35 --> 00:16:37 It's higher than it's ever been in that regard.
00:16:38 --> 00:16:42 So, you know, that that can't be lost. But the
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 thing that really kind of changes the whole quality
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 of that is you being able to form those relationships.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50 Right. And that translates to everything. You
00:16:50 --> 00:16:54 know, as of late, I've had the opportunity, the
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 honor, really, to serve on the board of the AICPA.
00:16:58 --> 00:17:03 And so, again, you know, that selection was based
00:17:03 --> 00:17:08 off of what I had done and the, you know, being
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 able to speak up, right? And have something important
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 to say when people wanted to hear it. And then,
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 you know, garnering respect to people that were
00:17:14 --> 00:17:17 in my circle. And so it's a distinct honor. But
00:17:17 --> 00:17:21 through that service, right, I'm continuing to
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 form some very strong personal relationships.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 And so that's the most enriching part of it for
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 me, is that that's what I get out of it, right?
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31 I'm giving, right, my time. Whatever people think
00:17:31 --> 00:17:35 I know right in my perspective in order for us
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 to kind of get to the right answer But you know
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 I get as much out of it because I get to form
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 these relations learn from all these other people
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 and and go from there so it's it's um That's
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 what I miss. I miss kind of that collaboration
00:17:48 --> 00:17:52 with people What do I miss or what don't I miss?
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 It's the hours. Let's be clear. It's the hours.
00:17:56 --> 00:18:00 It's the politics of it, right because What you
00:18:00 --> 00:18:04 have to know is look, their game is attrition
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 in terms of who rises to the top. And there's
00:18:07 --> 00:18:09 so many macro things that you can't control in
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 terms of if someone does have aspirations to
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 become a partner, a lot of it's gonna be out
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 of your control. Your timing may be bad. They
00:18:18 --> 00:18:20 may have made a bunch of partners the year before
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 and guess what? There's no room because the guys
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 at the top don't wanna retire yet. They're milking
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 the kitty just the way they need to. It may not
00:18:29 --> 00:18:30 be your time or you're going to have to wait
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 longer. And I'm a very impatient person, so it's
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 not okay. It doesn't work. No, it's it's fair.
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 It's fair because something has to give. It does.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 Something has to give. Absolutely. So how was
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 your first week as a CFO? I'm curious to hear
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 like because as an auditor, like your job is
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 to, you know, check what's wrong, make recommendation,
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 and then you come in house. And now it's your
00:18:53 --> 00:18:55 job to implement those recommendations and build
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 like it's. It's a total different game. So I'm
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 curious to hear what was that first month like
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 for you coming from public accounting? I was
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 drinking through a fire hose, right? For sure.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 Because I think it's contextual. I think it depends
00:19:09 --> 00:19:14 on what company you go into kind of exiting audit,
00:19:14 --> 00:19:18 right? And even having done so many public company
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 audits up to that time, what I realized very
00:19:20 --> 00:19:24 quickly was that there was so much to the job
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 inside of a finance organization. that had nothing
00:19:27 --> 00:19:31 to do with the actual numbers, right? When you're
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 dealing with, depending on the size of the organization
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 and whether you're public or not, you've got
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 this whole finance aspect of it, right? From
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 a, let's say if you don't have a large treasury
00:19:40 --> 00:19:45 organization, well, you're the treasury. So you're
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 just having to figure out finance and the nuances
00:19:47 --> 00:19:51 of finance and is this a good debt versus equity
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55 structure? Is this the right way to go? Sometimes
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 you're guessing you're utilizing every resource
00:19:58 --> 00:20:02 you can. And then there's the whole securities
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 and exchange aspect of it, which was, I thought
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 I knew finance, securities, and exchange, and
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10 I realized how much I didn't know. So I had to
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 roll up my sleeves and kind of really dig in
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 there. And so that was the toughest part of it,
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 is that moving to the other side and learning
00:20:19 --> 00:20:23 all of these. the administrative aspect of all
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 that piece in terms of getting your market data,
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 getting your security data. How do you analyze
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 it? What do you use it for? Those are the things
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 that, you know, you're not gonna pick that up
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 as a public company auditor. You're on the outside
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 looking at some of the results of it, but not
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 the machinations of it, right? And so that's
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 the part where I really had to sharpen my pencil
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 and really had to dig in and spend, you know,
00:20:46 --> 00:20:48 a number of hours getting my hand wrapped around
00:20:48 --> 00:20:54 that. but you know the upside though is that
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 building teams is what you do and you know if
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 you're in the audit world and really throughout
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02 any aspect of working in public company once
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 you get to a level of manager senior manager
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 you've got to build your team you've got to you
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 know kind of monitor what everyone's doing and
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 work through that and so that doesn't get lost
00:21:11 --> 00:21:15 you know you still have that skill and frankly
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 you know I had our I had a lot of heavy engagement
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 with Nava coming up as, you know, a young senior
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 and manager up through senior manager. I was
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 president of the Atlanta chapter of Nava, probably
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 the shortest stint because it was right on the
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 beginning of me going on my second. So I made
00:21:34 --> 00:21:35 me president. I said, hey, guys, I got to go.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:39 You guys got to find somebody. They said, thank
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 you for your service. You haven't done that much.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:47 So what I tell anybody is get engaged. outside
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 of your company where you can, because you're
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 getting these invaluable reps at leadership,
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 at working inside an organization, at motivating
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 people to kind of help you when they're just
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 giving their time gratis, right? Those are skills
00:22:03 --> 00:22:07 that you pick up that you wouldn't obtain just
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 working inside your organization, or you won't
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 get those opportunities until much further on
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 down your career. And then it's brand new. So
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 you've got this kind of storage, this kitty of
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 information that you can draw from and put that
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 out there. And people too, that you meet along
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 the way. Absolutely. Having more CFO friends
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29 that you can call. Like, I have so many on speed
00:22:29 --> 00:22:32 dial. Have you seen this? Am I thinking about
00:22:32 --> 00:22:36 this the right way? Yes. Why do we do this? So
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 those are the type of questions you need, especially
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 when you're in a situation where it's brand new
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 to you and you're trying to figure out your way.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 It's crazy. Yes. Curious to hear though, besides
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 that, what did you have to like learn or unlearn
00:22:48 --> 00:22:52 once you came into industry? There's a difference
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 in the level of, at times, there's a difference
00:22:54 --> 00:22:58 in the level of motivation that I've experienced,
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 right, with people in the finance organization.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 You come from a public accounting firm, by and
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 large, we're all type A, we're driven, you know,
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 we want to impress. And so when you move outside
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 of public to industry, it just may not be the
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 same, right? So you're learning how to operate
00:23:17 --> 00:23:22 in an organization that isn't as driven, let's
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 say, focused on deliverables and results. And
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 so you've got to find a way to motivate people.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 And so, you know, I read a lot of Sun Tzu's Art
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 of War as a kid, and I say as a kid, you know,
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 when I was probably in my 20s, I read that a
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 couple of times, I read Machiavelli's The Prince,
00:23:40 --> 00:23:45 because I wanted to understand, you know, how
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 do I get people to move in a way? I realize you
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 had to find out what's important to them, right?
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 So being a leader, to be a good leader, I believe,
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 you have to listen to your people, get to know
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 your people so that you can understand, because
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 compensation can't be the only motivation factor,
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 right? You'll get what you pay for, and depending
00:24:02 --> 00:24:07 on how, you know, what role it is, exactly that,
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 right? And so you have to find a way to kind
00:24:10 --> 00:24:14 of connect with people almost to where I had
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 people that I worked for during my career that
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 I would run through a brick wall for, because
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 I believed in them. I wanted them to be successful.
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 And so you have to find a way to be that for
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 other people. And that's only through connection.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 That's only through people feeling as though
00:24:29 --> 00:24:33 you care about them, not just what they do, and
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 that will motivate them to go the extra mile
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 for you. That's been my experience. Or that's
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 how I've tried to lead. Successful or not, I'll
00:24:41 --> 00:24:45 let you know. That's so important, though, because
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 when you think about our, you know, curriculum,
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 accounting and finance, there's nothing about
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 leadership in it. There is nothing about, you
00:24:52 --> 00:24:56 know, psychology or everything is that even when
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 you look at the different classes, accounting
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 101, 102, financial management, cost accounting,
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 there is nothing about people. and then you get
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 into the role and you realize, even in public
00:25:07 --> 00:25:10 accounting, the higher you go, it's all people.
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 It's all about people. It's all about people.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:18 And look, maybe I was smart enough back then
00:25:18 --> 00:25:22 to kind of dig into this aspect of it. There's
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 a book, 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, that
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 I read post -graduation that really helped me
00:25:29 --> 00:25:33 understand what motivates people in the different
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 levels of leadership. Because you've got to know
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 how good you can be, right? Because supposedly
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 there's a ceiling in terms of how good of a leader
00:25:41 --> 00:25:44 you can be, right? Because, you know, if you're
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 a 10 on the leadership scale, then you can attract
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 10 talent, right? But if you're just a five,
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 then you've got to be able to recognize what
00:25:51 --> 00:25:52 are your strengths? What are your weaknesses?
00:25:53 --> 00:25:57 How do you move there? And how do you work on
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 those other skills in order to become a better
00:25:59 --> 00:26:03 leader? And so you're right. The people aspect
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07 of it is not taught. It's only learned. But there's
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 tons of resources out there for you to do it.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 You just got to put in the time and the effort.
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15 I really want what you want that for your or
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 that aspect of your career. And listen, here's
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 what you got to know. That's going to change.
00:26:20 --> 00:26:25 Right. But, you know, I'm a father and I'm a
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 father first and foremost. Right. So, you know,
00:26:27 --> 00:26:31 she's nine years old now and, you know, she's
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 my new wife. And so I think I was mentioning
00:26:34 --> 00:26:39 to you that at this point in my career, if I
00:26:39 --> 00:26:43 never receive another accolade, if no one else
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 ever knows my name, when this is all said and
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 done, the only thing that I want is for her to
00:26:49 --> 00:26:53 want to spend time with me when she's out in
00:26:53 --> 00:26:57 the world. That's the only value I have. Everything
00:26:57 --> 00:27:01 else is icing on the cake. I want to be who she
00:27:01 --> 00:27:06 needs me to be. But I really won't let anything
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 detract from that because that's my primary focus.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 I want to do a good job. I want to provide for
00:27:11 --> 00:27:18 my family. But that's who I am today. I happen
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 to be a CFO. I happen to be in the accounting
00:27:21 --> 00:27:27 profession. But I want to be known by her as
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 a fantastic father and someone that she looks
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 up to. And that's it. Everything else is easy
00:27:33 --> 00:27:37 after that. Wow. That's beautiful because a couple
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 years ago, you know, in the grind, I wanted to
00:27:39 --> 00:27:42 become a CFO and all that. I think I was VP of
00:27:42 --> 00:27:45 finance and accounting. I told you that. And
00:27:45 --> 00:27:47 I was working late one day because at the time,
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49 the company I was working for was based in San
00:27:49 --> 00:27:53 Francisco. Which meant when I woke up, they were
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 still asleep. And so by 6 p .m. here was just
00:27:56 --> 00:28:00 3 p .m. there. So I had longer days. So and I'm
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 the cook. I don't have a wife. I have a husband
00:28:02 --> 00:28:08 who doesn't cook. Now, now, now, now. So it wasn't
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 like, you know, so we had to step in a little
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 bit and, you know, stepping in. It was just what
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 you get. Chick -fil -A. He cooked Chick -fil
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 -A. We cooked Chick -fil -A a lot during those
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 times. Good job. But what I remember so vividly
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 is she came one day and she was like, what are
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 you doing? You know, I'm an accountant. And she
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 said, that's what it is. I don't want to do that
00:28:30 --> 00:28:34 when I grow up. And he broke my heart. And it
00:28:34 --> 00:28:38 completely changed how I work because I thought
00:28:38 --> 00:28:40 I was good at setting boundaries. But hearing
00:28:40 --> 00:28:44 it from my child, I was like, oof. Tell you everything
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 from the mouths of babes is what they say. Yes.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:52 Yes. So it completely changed how I showed up,
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 the thing I said yes to, and how I responded
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 to her. But it completely changed me on that
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02 leadership side of how I was spending my time.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:05 And it's so profound when you said, yeah, at
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 the end of the day, what is your new why and
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 how it changes? But for others who may not have
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 kids or still want to grow on that leadership
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16 side, You mentioned resources you mentioned you
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 obviously read a book a lot of books because
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22 you mentioned like five books Already, but what
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 are other things that you think can help people
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 like find that? Healthy balance right because
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 you don't want to be all in of I work all these
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 hours I make all this money and I have no life.
00:29:33 --> 00:29:37 Yeah. Well, I have a life and I'm broke You know
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 there is in credits right like yeah, what have
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 you found really helped in that? in terms of
00:29:43 --> 00:29:47 striking balance? Yes. No is a powerful word.
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 It's a complete sentence, right? I've always
00:29:49 --> 00:29:53 struggled with not taking advantage of the opportunities
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 that were presented for me. I would always say
00:29:55 --> 00:29:59 yes, right? And so I think there's a time for
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 that in your career, right? Where you absolutely
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 say yes to everything, right? Say yes to the
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 projects and it'll pay dividends. But I think
00:30:09 --> 00:30:14 that And I'm envious of this new generation a
00:30:14 --> 00:30:18 little bit in the sense that their career doesn't
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 define them. Oh, yeah. Right. I think that's
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 fantastic because, you know, I believe that the
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 older generations, that's that who they were,
00:30:26 --> 00:30:30 right, is what defines who they are in the world.
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 And that can that that's a heavy handcuff to
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 put yourself right. It's a heavy cross to carry.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:40 So in kind of finding the balance. I heard there's
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 a story that's out there where I think it was
00:30:42 --> 00:30:45 a teacher giving a seminar and they got this
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 big glass jar and they put a bunch of heavy rocks
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 into it. It's like, is it full? And you continue
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 to put things in. You add smaller pebbles and
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 then sand and then water. The key there is you
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58 start with the things that are most important
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 in your life. Every person has to go through
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 that evaluation on their own. And here's the
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 thing, it will shift. Because when I first started,
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 I just wanted money, opportunity, because the
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10 money allowed me to do the other things I like
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 to do. I grew up in Alabama, so I like to go
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 hunt, I like to go hang out with my friends.
00:31:17 --> 00:31:19 I grew up having a bush hog, a hundred acres
00:31:19 --> 00:31:23 as a kid, so those are the things that I like
00:31:23 --> 00:31:28 to do outside of work. But as I went along, my
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 Y changed. It was okay, well, my relationships
00:31:31 --> 00:31:35 became more important. So I had to kind of move
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 things around. Does that mean you may have to
00:31:37 --> 00:31:42 kind of take a lesser role at work or kind of
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 ride out a position a little bit longer and not
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 get that next promotion because this is more
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 important. You have to constantly go through
00:31:49 --> 00:31:53 the process what's important to you, right? And
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 if that's important to you, are you serving it
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 properly? And if not, you gotta be strong enough
00:32:00 --> 00:32:05 to make the changes to do so. That's what I would
00:32:05 --> 00:32:08 tell anybody right, but you've got this luxury
00:32:08 --> 00:32:12 that those first call it ten years of your career
00:32:12 --> 00:32:17 Go all out, you know focus on this look up in
00:32:17 --> 00:32:23 ten years and then you would have obtained this
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 capital individuals right this not this knowledge
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 reports repository that you've gained Right you
00:32:30 --> 00:32:33 allow people to pour into you start there Right.
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 And after that, then you can start making some
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 of those harder decisions in life. You know,
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 um, I didn't think about kids, you know, before
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 I turned 30. Now, mind you, if you'd asked me
00:32:42 --> 00:32:44 in college, I was going to have three kids by
00:32:44 --> 00:32:47 the time I was 28. Well, life has a funny show.
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 That's my husband and I were going to have four
00:32:50 --> 00:32:54 kids. We have to, so, you know, um, so, you know,
00:32:54 --> 00:32:56 it just didn't lay out for me, um, in that way.
00:32:56 --> 00:33:00 But, you know, I wouldn't trade it for the world
00:33:00 --> 00:33:03 at this point. And there are times where, you
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05 know, it's so good now. I was like, well, I didn't
00:33:05 --> 00:33:08 do this early. Well, look, God has a funny way
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10 of saying he's like, I'll give you what you're
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 ready for. And I was not ready prior to then.
00:33:13 --> 00:33:15 But, you know, it's and look, it's afforded me
00:33:15 --> 00:33:19 to be a better father. I know today than I would
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 have been, you know, if we had started 10 years
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 earlier. Right. So that, you know, and you'll
00:33:25 --> 00:33:27 hear me talk about, you know, family and my daughter
00:33:27 --> 00:33:30 a lot in almost every conversation that I have,
00:33:30 --> 00:33:34 because That's my guiding light. Right. And so
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36 I have the fortune of having that now. Now, again,
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 going back to kind of the people that aren't
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 there in their in their path, really plot out
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 where you want to be, how you how you want to
00:33:44 --> 00:33:47 live your life. Because when all this is said
00:33:47 --> 00:33:50 and done, the organization probably still be
00:33:50 --> 00:33:53 there when you retire or leave. Right. All this
00:33:53 --> 00:33:56 will still be around when it's over. And so you've
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 got to answer to somebody and it's going to be
00:33:58 --> 00:34:02 the person in the mirror. Right. You know, Does
00:34:02 --> 00:34:04 that really enrich you? Is that the value that
00:34:04 --> 00:34:07 you want to have in your life? Sound like a motivational
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 speaker. But I mean, I think this is real because,
00:34:09 --> 00:34:12 you know, I was sharing with you one thing that
00:34:12 --> 00:34:15 really touched me not too long ago was it was
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 a short of a guy, you know, I think he was a
00:34:17 --> 00:34:19 multimillionaire or billionaire. They were asked,
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21 you know, he's kind of this conversation where
00:34:21 --> 00:34:24 he says, listen, go through all these accolades,
00:34:24 --> 00:34:28 you know, you go through his career, mass all
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 this money, you have mass all these resources.
00:34:31 --> 00:34:35 And at the end of it, if because you were taken
00:34:35 --> 00:34:38 away from your family for so much that your grown
00:34:38 --> 00:34:41 children don't seek you out to spend time with
00:34:41 --> 00:34:46 you, then what was it worth at the end of the
00:34:46 --> 00:34:51 day? That's the one price I'm unwilling to pay.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:55 This is all said and done, right? So she showed
00:34:55 --> 00:34:57 up, all right, this is it. She'll get everything
00:34:57 --> 00:35:01 from this point forward. Most importantly, she'll
00:35:01 --> 00:35:04 get my attention whenever she wants it. That,
00:35:04 --> 00:35:09 to me, makes everything. After that, I don't
00:35:09 --> 00:35:11 know that I really care. I want to do a good
00:35:11 --> 00:35:14 job. I don't want to sully my name by, you know,
00:35:14 --> 00:35:17 not being there for the roles that I have. But,
00:35:17 --> 00:35:21 you know, none of that can take away from her.
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24 So, look, I'm fortunate in that I have a why.
00:35:25 --> 00:35:28 I love it. I enjoy it. But I won't give that
00:35:28 --> 00:35:32 up. Oh, that is so nice. And so one of my last
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 questions is for the senior managers here that
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37 are in audit, for example, that want to make
00:35:37 --> 00:35:39 the move into industry, what will be your advice
00:35:39 --> 00:35:44 to them? So first thing I tell them is really
00:35:44 --> 00:35:47 evaluate. Don't take your first opportunity,
00:35:47 --> 00:35:51 right? Really evaluate the culture of the company,
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 right? Because you have to understand you're
00:35:55 --> 00:35:58 coming from if let's say you were at one of the
00:35:58 --> 00:36:03 top 50 firms in the country, you are coming from
00:36:03 --> 00:36:08 a very well developed organization and structure.
00:36:09 --> 00:36:11 And so you have to really say to yourselves,
00:36:12 --> 00:36:15 you know, so you've been in this real comfortable
00:36:15 --> 00:36:16 kind of environment and blanket for the longest
00:36:16 --> 00:36:22 time. So do your due diligence, not just on the
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24 company's metrics on and so forth, but the culture
00:36:24 --> 00:36:27 of the organization. So a lot of times you'll
00:36:27 --> 00:36:28 get that first nod. You'll be like, all right,
00:36:28 --> 00:36:29 yep, this is my opportunity. I get to go be a
00:36:29 --> 00:36:34 CFO. Because it can change kind of the context
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 of that. You'll end up, you can go into a very
00:36:37 --> 00:36:41 entrepreneurial situation, right? A organization,
00:36:41 --> 00:36:43 let's say, maybe they're five to seven years
00:36:43 --> 00:36:44 old, you're on the ground floor. It's a great
00:36:44 --> 00:36:47 opportunity, but you've got to know that going
00:36:47 --> 00:36:50 in. So you really have to kind of do some real
00:36:50 --> 00:36:53 introspection and say, okay, yep, I'm gonna put
00:36:53 --> 00:36:56 my head down. And what am I sacrificing at the
00:36:56 --> 00:36:58 time that I do that? Who are you doing it for?
00:36:59 --> 00:37:01 Do they understand that? Are you having those
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 conversations? Now, if you're single, senior
00:37:04 --> 00:37:08 manager coming out, drive forward, right? But
00:37:08 --> 00:37:12 what I tell people is never lose sight of the
00:37:12 --> 00:37:15 people that are also in your circle. If you have
00:37:15 --> 00:37:18 a family, open that conversation up, right? Like,
00:37:19 --> 00:37:21 yeah, it's on your shoulders to support your
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 family, but open that conversation up. Let everybody
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26 understand the sacrifice that's about to happen.
00:37:26 --> 00:37:30 Um, so they buy in on it. So, um, you're not
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32 carrying an extra cross while you're going out
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34 there doing it. That's what I tell people. That's
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 such a great advice. I wish I had that years
00:37:36 --> 00:37:41 ago. Thank you for sharing. Cause I read the,
00:37:41 --> 00:37:44 the first 90 days, um, book and he was talking
00:37:44 --> 00:37:47 about how, like before you, you hop into any
00:37:47 --> 00:37:50 role. You need to make sure you're not trying
00:37:50 --> 00:37:52 to plan a big move, like something major going
00:37:52 --> 00:37:55 on, because your attention will focus and you
00:37:55 --> 00:37:58 can really put a stress on those relationships.
00:37:58 --> 00:38:02 And I didn't realize how much that meant, but
00:38:02 --> 00:38:04 that's such a great advice. Yeah. People have
00:38:04 --> 00:38:08 to buy into your plan. And so everyone's, every
00:38:08 --> 00:38:11 household is different, right? But having that
00:38:11 --> 00:38:14 buy -in and that support at the end of the day
00:38:14 --> 00:38:18 will really make it a more meaningful relationship
00:38:18 --> 00:38:22 and for them to take the ride with you as opposed
00:38:22 --> 00:38:25 to, you know, you're looking at them in the rear
00:38:25 --> 00:38:26 view while you're out doing what you're doing,
00:38:26 --> 00:38:29 right? Because that can get lost. You know, going
00:38:29 --> 00:38:32 back to kids, right? You know, all they want
00:38:32 --> 00:38:34 is your presence and your attention, right? And
00:38:34 --> 00:38:39 so now look, you know, in hindsight, right? You
00:38:39 --> 00:38:44 know, my father, you know, like I said, started
00:38:44 --> 00:38:47 a CPA firm in Alabama, right, which was minority
00:38:47 --> 00:38:50 on CPR, which unheard of, you know, you served
00:38:50 --> 00:38:53 as revenue commissioner of the state of Alabama
00:38:53 --> 00:38:56 under George Wallace, right, and then director
00:38:56 --> 00:39:00 of finance under Jim Folsom, right. So he was
00:39:00 --> 00:39:03 gone a lot, right. And so I have the benefit
00:39:03 --> 00:39:06 of having gone through that experience. But I
00:39:06 --> 00:39:10 also have an absolute appreciation for what it
00:39:10 --> 00:39:14 was able to provide for me. right down the line.
00:39:14 --> 00:39:17 And so, yeah, there was a sacrifice. We did have
00:39:17 --> 00:39:20 a conversation about him going to work for George
00:39:20 --> 00:39:22 Wallace, right? Because actually George has got
00:39:22 --> 00:39:25 his own story. And so, you know, trust I had
00:39:25 --> 00:39:28 my father was that he explained to me, he's like,
00:39:28 --> 00:39:30 listen, George is not the same man that he was.
00:39:30 --> 00:39:32 And that's why I'm doing this, you know, for
00:39:32 --> 00:39:36 a number of reasons. So I understood sacrifice
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 as a child in the benefit of a greater good that
00:39:39 --> 00:39:42 a lot of people didn't have to experience. But
00:39:42 --> 00:39:47 I'm also mindful of what that does on the back
00:39:47 --> 00:39:50 end to the family. You know, and so I don't have
00:39:50 --> 00:39:53 anything negative to say about, you know, my
00:39:53 --> 00:39:54 upbringing, my childhood, because it's provided
00:39:54 --> 00:39:57 me everything where I am today. Give me great
00:39:57 --> 00:39:59 opportunities. I've done my best to take full
00:39:59 --> 00:40:02 advantage of those opportunities and not squander
00:40:02 --> 00:40:04 them because I knew that there was sacrifice
00:40:04 --> 00:40:08 made all along the way to get there. And it means
00:40:08 --> 00:40:10 a lot to me. Right. And so that was important.
00:40:12 --> 00:40:16 But at the same time, I sit here and say, I don't
00:40:16 --> 00:40:19 know that I want my daughter to ever experience
00:40:19 --> 00:40:22 that. But if we do, that's going to be a conversation
00:40:22 --> 00:40:24 that we're going to have. And because I want
00:40:24 --> 00:40:27 her to buy in because she's got to always remember,
00:40:27 --> 00:40:29 she's the most important thing. I was like, daddy
00:40:29 --> 00:40:33 won't do this if this doesn't pan out. Or we'll
00:40:33 --> 00:40:34 have a longer conversation where I get her on
00:40:34 --> 00:40:39 my side eventually. Try. I will attempt. She's
00:40:39 --> 00:40:42 the boss. So what is one truth about your career
00:40:42 --> 00:40:47 that you rarely say out loud? So it's starting
00:40:47 --> 00:40:50 to be said more. Um, and I've said this in a
00:40:50 --> 00:40:54 number of rooms. I actually, I said it at my
00:40:54 --> 00:40:58 new board member orientation for the ICPA. Um,
00:40:58 --> 00:40:59 you know, we went through the orientation. We
00:40:59 --> 00:41:02 kind of go through the first meeting and we're
00:41:02 --> 00:41:04 having kind of a hot wash, a debrief at the end
00:41:04 --> 00:41:09 of the meeting. And my comment was, I feel like
00:41:09 --> 00:41:13 I'm an imposter in the room. And I realized I'd
00:41:13 --> 00:41:16 started to feel that throughout most of my career
00:41:16 --> 00:41:19 when people selected me to do things. Because
00:41:19 --> 00:41:22 I was shocked that I got the opportunity. And
00:41:22 --> 00:41:24 when you start looking at the people that are
00:41:24 --> 00:41:26 with you, you say to yourself, well, I'm not
00:41:26 --> 00:41:30 them. Why am I here? Should I be here? And that'll
00:41:30 --> 00:41:31 happen as you progress through your career, where
00:41:31 --> 00:41:34 you get invited into these more important rooms.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:37 You're sitting down at the table where critical
00:41:37 --> 00:41:42 decisions are being made. And that, you know,
00:41:42 --> 00:41:45 I've started to kind of talk about that. And
00:41:45 --> 00:41:47 it started to get coined a lot more. Yes. You
00:41:47 --> 00:41:50 know, this imposter syndrome where you're like,
00:41:51 --> 00:41:55 I don't know why I'm here, but you have to shake
00:41:55 --> 00:41:59 that as soon as possible. Acknowledge it. Because
00:41:59 --> 00:42:01 that humility is what's going to benefit you
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03 because it's going to help you ask questions.
00:42:03 --> 00:42:07 Like if you don't know, somebody else may not
00:42:07 --> 00:42:09 know as well. So never take that for granted.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:14 So relish that. But yeah, I've always felt like
00:42:14 --> 00:42:16 I was an imposter in the room. I never felt like
00:42:16 --> 00:42:18 I was good enough. Other people perceive that
00:42:18 --> 00:42:21 I was because they thought that I had some value.
00:42:21 --> 00:42:24 And so I have to rest on those laurels. So don't
00:42:24 --> 00:42:28 second guess yourself. Do the work. put in the
00:42:28 --> 00:42:32 effort after you're there to prove it to yourself.
00:42:32 --> 00:42:34 Because if you're proving it to yourself, everyone
00:42:34 --> 00:42:36 else is going to see it. They're going to see
00:42:36 --> 00:42:37 the effort. They're going to see the engagement.
00:42:38 --> 00:42:41 They're going to see the participation. And it'll
00:42:41 --> 00:42:44 continue to pay dividends. But you have to shake
00:42:44 --> 00:42:46 that off. But I've always felt like an imposter.
00:42:46 --> 00:42:50 Because listen, I've worked with some very intelligent
00:42:50 --> 00:42:54 people. I was a good auditor. I wasn't a great
00:42:54 --> 00:42:57 one. I was a good technician. and the greatest
00:42:57 --> 00:43:00 technician. And so there's some aspect to either
00:43:00 --> 00:43:02 my personality, kind of how I operate, how I
00:43:02 --> 00:43:05 collaborate. Those are my stronger suits. And
00:43:05 --> 00:43:07 so, you know, that kind of keeps me engaged with
00:43:07 --> 00:43:09 people, knowing that I'll kind of find the answer.
00:43:09 --> 00:43:13 And I don't have it in the beginning, but, you
00:43:13 --> 00:43:16 know, shake that off. But, yeah, my biggest truth
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 is like, I've always felt like an imposter, but
00:43:18 --> 00:43:23 it works because it compels you to drive a little
00:43:23 --> 00:43:28 bit harder. to shake that out of yourself. And
00:43:28 --> 00:43:30 the benefits are exponential after that. I think,
00:43:30 --> 00:43:33 I think, you know, it runs from there. That's
00:43:33 --> 00:43:36 amazing because I would not have thought like
00:43:36 --> 00:43:38 looking at your resume and the things that, I
00:43:38 --> 00:43:41 mean, you want the AICPA console and all that
00:43:41 --> 00:43:44 stuff. A blind dog finds a bone every now and
00:43:44 --> 00:43:46 then, right? The broken clock is right twice.
00:43:47 --> 00:43:52 So like, listen, you know, my goal there is,
00:43:53 --> 00:43:57 is to ensure that they're not wrong about their
00:43:57 --> 00:44:00 choice. When you're given the opportunity, make
00:44:00 --> 00:44:03 them right. If you have that in the back of your
00:44:03 --> 00:44:06 mind, you're gonna be successful. If your goal
00:44:06 --> 00:44:09 is just to prove them right in their choice,
00:44:09 --> 00:44:13 because at the moments where you think you're
00:44:13 --> 00:44:16 supposed to be there, I think that's when you
00:44:16 --> 00:44:19 start to falter. Don't try as hard because, hey,
00:44:19 --> 00:44:22 I'm supposed to be here. Are you? Well, you've
00:44:22 --> 00:44:25 got to prove that every day, right? That's what
00:44:25 --> 00:44:26 it is. You know, you're number one in the world
00:44:26 --> 00:44:31 in whatever you do, you know, be it whatever
00:44:31 --> 00:44:34 sport you play. Yeah, you got to the top. You
00:44:34 --> 00:44:37 got to prove it every day. And, you know, which
00:44:37 --> 00:44:39 means you got to work twice as hard. Otherwise,
00:44:39 --> 00:44:41 you know, it will go away. They'll take it away
00:44:41 --> 00:44:45 from you to prove it. Yeah. Thank you so much
00:44:45 --> 00:44:46 for sharing my last question. Curiously here.
00:44:47 --> 00:44:49 What is your favorite thing to do on a weekend
00:44:49 --> 00:44:54 here in Atlanta? As you can see, I take up a
00:44:54 --> 00:44:57 little bit of space, so food will be involved,
00:44:57 --> 00:45:02 right? Signified of that. Look, the reason I
00:45:02 --> 00:45:05 love this city is because it's a cultural mecca,
00:45:05 --> 00:45:10 right? And so what I love to do is find a new
00:45:10 --> 00:45:14 restaurant, something I haven't been to, and
00:45:14 --> 00:45:16 try and introduce my daughter to some new cuisine,
00:45:16 --> 00:45:20 try and break her out of, you know... kind of
00:45:20 --> 00:45:24 dino dino chicken nuggets. Oh, gosh. Right now,
00:45:24 --> 00:45:28 she's a noodle theme. If it's Asian or Italian,
00:45:28 --> 00:45:32 if there's noodles in the dish, game on. So and
00:45:32 --> 00:45:35 unfortunately, I've gotten her introduced to
00:45:35 --> 00:45:38 duck. Right. So like, you know, ducks on her
00:45:38 --> 00:45:41 menu, but I can't get her to eat. a pork chop,
00:45:42 --> 00:45:45 so go figure. I still don't understand it, but
00:45:45 --> 00:45:49 just raise the bar. So it'll be spending time
00:45:49 --> 00:45:53 with family, trying a new meal or something like
00:45:53 --> 00:45:58 that. But listen, this city's amazing. It's continuing
00:45:58 --> 00:46:05 to flourish as a financial, cultural epicenter,
00:46:06 --> 00:46:10 not just in the Southeast, but nationwide. We've
00:46:10 --> 00:46:13 got to continue to kind of foster that and bring
00:46:13 --> 00:46:16 more companies here in that regard. But it's
00:46:16 --> 00:46:18 an amazing place. I don't know that I would have
00:46:18 --> 00:46:21 wanted to raise my child anywhere else because
00:46:21 --> 00:46:26 it's such a diverse and kind of open city. So
00:46:26 --> 00:46:30 yeah, food will be involved for sure. Same here.
00:46:32 --> 00:46:34 Like I'm planning my husband's Father's Day weekend.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:36 You think it's my weekend because I'm planning
00:46:36 --> 00:46:41 it around the things I like. Listen, what dads
00:46:41 --> 00:46:44 realize a long time ago is that nothing belongs
00:46:44 --> 00:46:46 to us anymore. Our birthdays don't belong to
00:46:46 --> 00:46:51 us anymore. Father's Day, you know, it's low
00:46:51 --> 00:46:53 on the list of important holidays. So the fact
00:46:53 --> 00:46:58 that it gets remembered is our only win. It's
00:46:58 --> 00:47:00 not that bad. I mean, he also likes it. Yeah.
00:47:00 --> 00:47:05 That's what he says. I'll leave that there. I'll
00:47:05 --> 00:47:11 leave that right there. Okay. He wants to sleep
00:47:11 --> 00:47:15 peacefully. No, he had a good time, didn't he?
00:47:15 --> 00:47:17 Yeah. Right. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, baby.
00:47:17 --> 00:47:23 This was the best one yet. Yes. Well, thank you.
00:47:23 --> 00:47:26 Thank you so much for being on this show. Fantastic.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:30 I appreciate it. You made this very, uh, a warm
00:47:30 --> 00:47:34 environment. I'll be honest with you. Um, I'll
00:47:34 --> 00:47:36 go ahead and say this, you know, I had a lot
00:47:36 --> 00:47:40 of trepidation, you know, being on camera first
00:47:40 --> 00:47:42 time, I share with you, I'll say this out loud
00:47:42 --> 00:47:45 in my head, you know, I sound like Barry White,
00:47:45 --> 00:47:49 right? However, I've been told, I lean more Kevin
00:47:49 --> 00:47:52 Hart. And so I've got to accept that. And when
00:47:52 --> 00:47:55 this plays back, I've got to go through a whole
00:47:55 --> 00:47:58 soul searching thing and just come to acceptance.
00:47:59 --> 00:48:04 So please be kind. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
00:48:11 --> 00:48:15 I broke her people. I broke. Yes. Mission accomplished.
00:48:15 --> 00:48:22 You did. Okay. We're going to get to the outro.
00:48:24 --> 00:48:30 We're going to close here in a second, but. Okay.
00:48:30 --> 00:48:34 We're going to record this. So leave that in.
00:48:34 --> 00:48:37 Leave it in. I've been wanting to say that for
00:48:37 --> 00:48:43 a long time. Even it will be left in. Thank you,
00:48:44 --> 00:48:52 sir. That's it for this episode. I think I'm
00:48:52 --> 00:48:57 ready. We had to take like 30 minutes before
00:48:57 --> 00:48:59 we started this episode because this man is too
00:48:59 --> 00:49:03 funny. I know you're acting serious. Most of
00:49:03 --> 00:49:09 the episode. I did my best, but now that's it.
00:49:11 --> 00:49:15 That's it for today's episode of life from Atlanta
00:49:15 --> 00:49:17 the diary of a CFO I love doing this in person
00:49:17 --> 00:49:20 and you can definitely feel the difference So
00:49:20 --> 00:49:22 subscribe and share this with someone who needs
00:49:22 --> 00:49:28 it and I'll see you in the next one And we're
00:49:28 --> 00:49:28 out